Talk:May 2009 southern Midwest derecho

TC?

Though I well understand and agree with WP:TC!MCV, this case has strong evidence to support inland TC formation. It at least deserves a section on similarities.  --Bowser the Storm Tracker  ^{Chat Me Up} 04:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

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External links modified (January 2018)

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Requested move 22 November 2024

May 2009 southern Midwest derecho → 2009 Super Derecho – It doesn't appear "Super derecho" as a class of storms has been used to describe too many other storms officially - user-generated sources and the old page "Super-derecho" point to a 2003 derecho in the Northeast but I can't easily verify this in reliable-source media. The sole other storm called this was verified here and exists as June 2012 North American derecho. However, the common name for this event is "Super derecho" with some variant of the date preceding, and "May 2009 southern Midwest derecho" seems to be a uniquely Wikipedia thing. Since there is no confusion when using the 2009 ambiguator, I propose that Super derecho also be a redirect here, potentially with a hatnote as the mode "super derecho" appears to be very rare, owing to structure rather than intensity (the 2020 Midwest derecho didn't have the same structure, and therefore wasn't a super derecho). Departure– (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Move to 2009 super derecho. It is not a proper name. Theparties (talk) 19:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  I'm capitalizing "Super Derecho" in the same way that Super Outbreak is capitalized. Either way is fine though. Departure– (talk) 20:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  As a quick note, Super Outbreak itself is a capitalized categorical term, while no categories exist for "Super Derecho". The discussion following this in the Capitalization section will hopefully sort out "super derecho" or "Super Derecho". The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

  Super Outbreak referred exclusively to the 1974 instance until 2011, and in 2023 Grazulis made it a separate term. You can see the logs of 1974 Super Outbreak that it was Super Outbreak until the 2012 one was named that, before another editor moved it back in 2015 and it stuck. Departure– (talk) 21:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Conditional Support – I'll go ahead and throw my support behind this. There is indeed a mix of sources for how it is capitalized, however, plenty of sources for it being renamed at least to "Super Derecho". It appears the NOAA official name for this event is "Super Derecho" (capitalized) as seen in these NOAA publications: [1][2]. "2009 Super Derecho" pulls up a lot of sources. So my direct support is behind renaming it from May 2009 southern Midwest derecho to 2009 Super Derecho with a secondary discussion to occur following this requested move to sort out the capitalization. I do have several RS supporting both "Super Derecho" and "super derecho" along with academic papers for both "Super Derecho" and "super derecho". But to not make this singular discussion to complicated, since the actual term "super derecho" itself is the common-name, I support the move specifically for that reason. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Capitalization

I am starting this discussion here under the bold assumption that the requested move above will be done. This is a sources for the term "super derecho", sorted by their capitilization.

• For "Super Derecho" (Both capitilized):
  • NOAA: [3][4][5]
  • Reliable secondary sources: [6](AP)[7][8][9][10][11][12]
  • Academic: [13][14]
  • Film: [15]
• For "super derecho" (both lowercase):
  • Reliable secondary sources: [16][17][18][19][20][21][22]
  • Academic: [23][24][25][26]
• For "Superderecho":
  • Academic: [27]

• Seeing all of the sources above, there is very clearly no "clear" way it is capitalized. Since NOAA capitalized is, I am going to say Wikipedia should as well, despite the lack of clear consensus in sources. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy pings for those who had commented previously in the requested move: Departure– & Theparties. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Super Derecho (both capitalized) per NOAA sources. Departure– (talk) 21:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. I’m not changing my opinion. It is not a proper name so it should not be capitalized. Theparties (talk) 22:19, 22 November 2024 (UTC)