Talk:Massachusetts Institute of Technology

WP:DUE / inclusion of relative prestige in lede

Dear @GuardianH: and @ElKevbo:, I was wondering if you could advise me on how to expand the “Rankings” section (I would also like to change it to “Reputation and rankings”) here. From the Stanford talk page, I gather that I may need material explicitly supporting the position that MIT’s reputation for innovation, wealth, and rankings have made it one of the most prestigious universities in the world (if eventually permitted back in, I wish to revise the lede statement to include wealth). This is what I have collected so far (pardon me for the messiness):

1. Wealth:
   • Bloomberg, 2021: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-14/mit-brown-endowments-gain-more-than-50-to-record-levels
   • Washington Post, 2023: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/28/mit-is-a-college-bargain-nyu-not-so-much/c0ba8c58-e5b6-11ed-9696-8e874fd710b8_story.html
   • WSJ, 2023: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/big-university-endowments-hampered-by-startup-write-downs-77021825
2. Rankings:
   1. That rankings contribute significantly to prestige:
      • Research in Higher Education, 2004: https://www.jstor.org/stable/40197378
      • European Journal of Education, 2014: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26609201
      • Educational Evaluation and Policy Analysis, 2014: https://www.jstor.org/stable/43773471
   2. That MIT accordingly ranks (academically, not by prestige or desire rankings) among the best institutions in the world:
      • Times Higher Education, 2011: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2011/world-ranking/commentary
      • The Guardian, 2012: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/11/qs-world-top-100-universities-data-mit-cambridge
      • Academic Ranking of World Universities, 2014: https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2014
      • Forbes, 2023: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2023/07/06/the-worlds-10-best-universities-2024-revealed-5-in-europe-mit-at-the-top/?sh=4d20ffad2227 (MIT #1 globally)
      • CNBC, 2023: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/18/times-higher-education-top-20-universities-in-the-world.html (MIT #3 globally)
      • ARTU, 2023: https://research.unsw.edu.au/artu/artu-results (MIT #1 in aggregate ranking of ARWU, QS, THE)
3. Innovation / research (that MIT is perceived globally as a model for innovation and higher education):
   • The Guardian, 2006: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/22/highereducation.internationaleducationnews
   • Cultures of Technology and the Quest for Innovation, 2006: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1btbxh8.7
   • Science, 2007: https://www.jstor.org/stable/20051677
   • Forbes, 2013: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/09/10/the-worlds-top-colleges-2013/?sh=1b78e40a4eaf (“MIT blueprint”)
   • Social Studies of Science, 2017: https://www.jstor.org/stable/48568896
   • The Economist, 2020: https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/08/29/how-france-created-a-university-to-rival-mit
   • The New York Times, 2023: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/04/magazine/affirmative-action-race-college-admissions.html (this one is rather anecdotal, though, so maybe it doesn’t belong, but I think it speaks to how many prospective students think about MIT and STEM)
4. That MIT is prestigious in general (non-academic rankings and more):
   • Bloomberg, 2011: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-03-10/harvard-mit-ranked-most-prestigious-universities-study-reports
   • Harvard Undergraduate Open Data Project, 2019: https://www.hodp.org/project/analyzing-college-prestige-and-virality-through-google-trends/ (although I can understand why an undergraduate project that hasn’t been peer reviewed might not qualify for WP:RS)
   • Times Higher Education, 2022: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2022/reputation-ranking (MIT still in second on a survey explicitly targeting academics)
   • Fortune Magazine, 2023: https://fortune.com/2023/03/16/national-decision-day-mit-top-pick-us-college-hopefuls-2023/

Let me know if any of these may help to resolve the WP:DUE body weight issue previously encountered!

Cheers, Marcustcii (talk) 13:40, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

I worry that you are begging the question. You'll make more progress and we'll get a better article if you first find high quality sources that discuss the university's reputation and then summarize what those sources say (as opposed to only looking for sources that support the conclusion that you've already assumed). ElKevbo (talk) 23:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Good point, sorry! What if I put aside all talk of rankings for now and focus on finding more articles like the ones I linked from JSTOR (excluding the KAIST one, which certainly reads far more like a newsletter) discussing the type of STEM-focused education MIT represents and its general reputation? Would that fit with the high quality sources that might improve the article, or do those journal articles I linked not yet meet the standards we’d want? Marcustcii (talk) 00:23, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, being a veteran scholar of higher education yourself (whereas I am interested in the field but have little experience to show for it), do you have any recommendations as to where I could start finding the type of sources you’re talking about? Is there a specific set of journals or databases that you might recommend? Marcustcii (talk) 00:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

@ElKevbo: I’ve found two more sources relating to this university in general: Etzkowitz’s MIT and the Rise of Entrepreneurial Science and the less MIT-focused The Rise of American Research Universities: Elites and Challengers in the Postwar Era by Graham and Diamond. Etzkowitz in particular seems to have written extensively about MIT’s role in the development of American higher education — would you consider that as (a) an appropriately qualified source and (b) belonging more to the history of the institution or its reputation? (While I am mostly looking for sources on its reputation, I’d love to be able to contribute to any part of the article). Marcustcii (talk) 19:41, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry but I can't answer those questions without reading those materials. The publishers are certainly reputable so it looks like you're on the right track! ElKevbo (talk) 21:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Nobel laureates

Says "As of October 2023, 101 Nobel laureates [...] have been affiliated with MIT", but the linked list includes only 24 such laureates. The linked list does include a disclaimer about different methods of counting and possible consequent "inconsistency" in numbers, but 101 to 24 seems a blatant contradiction rather than an "inconsistency". 2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:AD4B:6795:4308:4857 (talk) 01:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Updated MIT seal and logo

MIT has updated its logo and seal designs. Can one of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology page owners please contact me so I can provide the updated files? My office manages MIT's brand system. Thank you. Bblender (talk) 13:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)