Talk:Manx Electric Railway

Stations

Is Groudle railway station (original terminus 1893) the same as Groudle Glen railway station? The Goudle Glen station is shown as opening with electrification on 2 July 1899.

Alternatively it may be a seperate halt south of Groudle station also known as Groudle Lane railway station to serve the Groudle Glen Railway in which case should it be shown seperately on the Manx Electric Railway diagram? And the two pages (Groudle Glen/Groudle Lane) amalgamated.

I have made a redirect from another page called Groudle Glen Halt to Groudle Glen station Hugo999 (talk) 03:12, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion

There has been a number of halts added to Manx Electric Railway template which should be either merged into a single page of minor halts and stops or be deleted according to Wikipedia policy, as follows;-

• Port Jack
• Onchan Head
• Café Royale
• Majestic
• Braeside
• Far End
• Howstrake Camp
• Groudle Lane
• Eskadale
• Balladromma Beg
• Scarffe's Crossing
• Ballamenagh
• Sunnycott
• Garwick Glen
• Ballagawne
• Ballabeg
• Lamb's Crossing
• Preston's Crossing
• Miller's Crossing
• Minorca
• Laxey Old Road
• Skinscoe
• Ballmoar (Bottom)
• Ballamoar (Top)
• Ballaragh
• Burn's Crossing
• Dhoon Farm
• Dhoon Quarry
• Thalloo Mitchell
• Brown's Crossing
• Ballellin
• Ballig
• Ballasholague
• Corkill's Crossing
• Glen Mona
• The Garey
• Ballagorry
• Watson's Crossing
• Dolland
• Crowcreen
• Ballaskeig
• Ballafayle (Corteen's)
• Ballacannell
• Ballafayle (Kerruish)
• Rome's Crossing
• Ballajora Quarry
• Dreemskerry
• Crowville
• Dreemskerry Farm
• Ballure
• Walpole Drive
• Queens Drive
• Ballastowell

Agljones (talk) 14:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. What may be minor for another place is not minor for the Isle of Man. Circumstances alter cases. Unless I have lost track, pun intended, it looks as if you have stated that every stop on the line is minor.

It's not as if Wikipedia is short of processing power or data storage, and merging these will not save any space or horsepower anyway. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 15:17, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I have just looked out of the window and the "halt" at Ballastowell does not have a bus stop-type sign and is not either a halt or request stop. I am not aware of a halt or request stop at Ballure, Walpole Drive or Queens Drive and do not have a bus stop-type signs. Many of these are either minor halts or request stops or do not actually exist. As with the Isle of Man Railway many of the minor halts were merged onto one page. The regular stops north of Laxey are Minorca Hill, Dhoon Glen, Ballaglass, Port Lewaigue, and Belle Vue. The halts at Ballamenagh, Far End, Groudle Lane, Scarffe's Crossing, Dumbell's Terrace and Ballaragh are actually bus-stops. The "halts" at Sunnycott, Preston and Miller's Crossings are actually road junctions. The Lambs Crossing is where a footpath crosses the line. The "halts" at Thalloo Mitchell, Burn's Crossing, Browns Crossing, Corkills Crossing and Watsons Crossing are road crossing. Agljones (talk) 15:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

What you state may be true, but, as we know, truth is not relevant at all to Wikipedia, and can often be seen as Original Research. We do seem to consider a place where a public transport vehicle stops as an official stop to be notable in other circumstances, though I am not a great fan of the doctrine that "other articles exist so why should these not" in cases like this. Road crossings, for example, can be highly notable, or completely pointless except as junctions. That the railway stops at a bus stop does not make the stop more nor less notable. There may be a historic significance not (yet?) in the stub articles.

The only thing to do is to return to the citations and to find others where necessary, but with an objective of verifying and improving what is there rather than tearing it down. Only tear down when there is no other hope.

I'm not saying "preserve at all costs", but observations made personally form the start point for research to see if reliable sources exist in the area, not for altering articles on the basis of one's own observation. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 04:30, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

There have been discussions elsewhere about articles describing bus stops, and I think the consensus has been to avoid them in most cases. Here, I have looked at two stubs, each containing one, or two, paragraphs of text, and with little prospect of immediate expansion. Extrapolating, it would seem that a decent length article could easily cover all such stops, with all the separate articles redirecting to the one (ie none deleted). However, I do not see any significant benefit in doing this. It is normal practice to list all stations on a railway line as separate articles, although in some cases, one article covers a number of stations. Any station articles which are stubs are open to expansion, and I would suggest that the same policy be allowed to prevail here.

EdJogg (talk) 00:38, 18 August 2009 (UTC) (NB - article no longer on watchlist. Contact via user:talk if required.)

The numerous articles of halts and request stops on the Manx Electric Railway appears to have been made from the publication One Hundred Years of the Manx Electric Railway by Keith Pearson (1992) 2nd Edition Leading Edge Press & Publication Ltd ISBN 0-948135 38 7 from maps 1 to 11 listed on page 147-152. As I have mentioned previously many of the halts and request stops are actually road crossings and road junctions and the listed maps 1-11 in the Pearson publication provides evidence that this is the case. The legend on the maps 1-11 appears to been have misunderstood in the Pearson book. The publication Isle of Man Timetables May 2009 (Arraghey Ellen Vannin Earroo Claare Boaldyn 2009) Isle of Man Department of Tourism and Leisure (2009) on page 11 Manx Electric Railway lists only Douglas (Derby Castle), Groudle, Baldrine, South Cape, Laxey, Dhoon Glen and Ramsey (Plaza) as stops. The listing for "Laxey, Manx Electric" occurs on page 13&14 for Route 3, 3B, 3C & X3 Douglas - St.Ninians - Onchan - Laxey - Ramsey (Dooilish - Kione Droghad - Laksey - Rhumsaa) and is a Bus Stop listing. As with the policy with Isle of Man Railways intermediate halts and request stops were amalgamated into one page. The other listings for road junctions, footpaths and road crossing should be incorporated into an article or section describing the line. I have listed Ballastowell Halt for deletion and either the information could be incorporated into either Ramsey (Plaza) or a historic listing of request stops. Many of the road crossing, road junctions, footpaths and bus route stops merit deletion or incorprated into a description of the line. Agljones (talk) 14:03, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The original version of 1992 Keith Pearson book titled Isle of Man Tramways (1970) ISBN 7153 4740 3 the same maps listed on page 147-152 of the 1992 version are listed as pages 361-368 in the original book. There are differences in the legend of the maps as the 1970 edition Isle of Man Tramways lists the intermediate points as LC (Level Crossing). These Level Crossing (LC) points have been omitted from the 1992 versions of the maps and given the indication that they are halts or request stops where they are actually road or level crossings. Agljones (talk) 18:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Diagram

Where is the discussion about the removal of most of the level crossings from the diagram? Mjroots (talk) 21:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Level Crossings with road traffic lights included. The Pearson publication Isle of Man Tramways (1970) lists Level Crossings (LC) and the majority of these are minor road crossings. Agljones (talk) 22:10, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Compare with {{Kent and East Sussex Railway}}, where all level crossings are shown, amongst other things. Mjroots (talk) 22:20, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

The Level Crossings with traffic lights are shown. The map legend for the Pearson publication One Hundred Years of the Manx Electric Railway (1992) has been misinterpreted and the road crossing marked as (LC) in the 1970 edition have been omitted from the 1992 edition. The discussion was to keep the information to verifiable information. I think that many editors would have deleted the information to road crossings, halts and request stops with starting a discussion first. As with the Isle of Man Railways the halts and request stops, including historical stop were moved to a single page. I do not have the evidence at the moment, I believe that the Ballastowell Halt may have been originally situated at the Queens Drive crossing. In trying to streamline the information and remove erroneous, duplicated and incorrect information, many of the Level Crossings (with traffic lights) and/or the road crossings, halts, request stops/'secondary stops' and historical stops could again be incorporated into a single article or a description of the line. In particular, there is evidence for the numerous historical incidents that has occurred including the high number of traffic accidents at Preston's Crossing and the high number of derailments at the Fairy Cottage and at Port Jack/Onchan Head. Also improvements to the line at Laxey, Ballabeg and Queens Drive West and the new tram sheds at Derby Castle, Laxey and Ramsey. Agljones (talk) 22:49, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

External links / protection

I've semi-protected the article for 3 days to prevent the re-addition by IP editors of an external link that breaks WP:ELNO. Hopefully it won't be necessary to reimpose protection, or block IP editors, once the protection expires. Mjroots (talk) 14:21, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

"Permanent way"

This section makes no sense at all at the moment, makes an unsourced claim about the running of the railway generally, and then deviates into visiting vehicles (which is nothing to do with the track). Would it be better deleted altogether? ElectronicsForDogs (talk) 19:07, 14 November 2022 (UTC)