Talk:Main Square, Kraków

Rename from Rynek Głowny

See discussion here.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  14:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

• Link update: the archived discussion from 2006 is at http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Portal_talk:Poland/Poland-related_Wikipedia_notice_board/Archive_7#Rynek_G.C5.82.C3.B3wny_-_rename.3F

Bernie doesn't fit Slaybish (talk) 03:05, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Bernie doesn't fit Slaybish (talk) 03:05, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Really the largest?

I don't know which is the largest medieval market square in Europe, but it seems improbable to me that it's this one, as Karlovo Náměstí (Charles Square) in Prague (founded 1348 by Charles IV.) has an area of 80550 m², while Rynek Główny has 200m × 200m = 40000 m². MJ 09:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Red Square in Moscow is larger than both of these. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 13:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, quite a few sources claim it is the largest: [1][2][3],[4] also indeed I found one that notes it is 'one of the largest'[5]. Nonetheless unless we can find refs to the contrary, the current statement fullfills the WP:V. Also, I'd note that Rynek dates to 13th century, while Karlovo is 14th, and Red Square is 15th.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  14:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The date is irrelevant and the sources you cite are not academic. It is a kind of megalomaniac touristy stuff aired by cheap city guides to draw tourists into their city. Regards, Ghirla ^-трёп- 15:01, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

So, Georgetown University Press[6] is non-academic? Unless you can show sources to the contrary, WP:V is satisfied it is the largest medieval square.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Building in Charles Square

I would guess the square in Krakow is considered the largest medieval old town square because still retains its "medieval" appearance. The Charles Square in Prague obviously no longer does, as seen in the adjacent photo. As for Red Square, Lenin's Mausoleum is obviously not medieval in appearance, either (plus since Red Square came into existence after 1493, it does not qualify as medieval by most definitions of the period). In short, "largest medieval town square in Europe" is distinct from "largest town square in Europe during the Middle Ages".Balcer 02:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing. The dimensions of Red Square are 330 m by 70 m which gives 23,100 m² in total, which makes it smaller than Krakow Square with its 40,000 m². QED. Balcer 03:20, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Everybody please see and contribute to List of city squares by size. Thanks. --TAG 17:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

medieval Town hall on the Charles Square in Prague

This claim that the Krakow square is the largest medieval square is incorrect. As it was said, the Red square in Moscow was founded in 1493 - in time which is not considered Middle Ages - therefore there are only two candidates to be "the largest medieval squares in Europe" - the Main Square in Krakow (13th century) and the Charles Square in Prague (1348). If you look at those two squares, it cannot be doubted that the square in Prague is larger (Krakow - ca 40,000 m², Prague - ca 66,000 m² (according to my measurement above the map).

I don't agree with the argument that the Krakow square is "the largest medieval square" only because its original appearance is better preserved. The square in Prague is still a square today, it wasn't a square just "during the Middle Ages" (see Balcer's comment), and its size and shape has never changed since 1348. It is true that there are more modern buildings on the square in Prague than in Krakow, but if you look at the square in Krakow there are only few buildings which appearance is really medieval (two churches and the town hall tower), the other buildings got their contemporary appearance after 1500. Therefore most of the buildings on the square in Krakow are not medieval, medieval are just few buildings, maybe some medieval foundations of some houses and the medieval division of the square. The square in Prague has also these features. In Prague there is preserved the Town hall, built in the 14th and 15th century (see the picture), there are also preserved some original foundations of the medieval buildings and although the other houses are newer (renaissance, baroque, 19th and 20th century), they didn’t destroyed or disrupt the original medieval division of the square.

It is true that the square in Krakow really looks “more medieval” but it is rather an illusion. The fact is that on the square in Krakow there is no modern building (compared to Prague). But it is not a good reason to say that the square is medieval enough. On the square in Krakow there are also many newer not-medieval houses as it is in Prague. So my question is, was the “disqualification" of Prague really valid? I don't think so. I am convinced that “academically correct” is to say that the square in Krakow is the second largest medieval square after the Charles Square in Prague. --Packare 23:10, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

You may well be right, but per WP:V we need verifiable references. I have added a google-book accessible ref the largest square, if you can show sources that dispute that, we can rewrite the article accordingly. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:39, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I tried to find some sources about the Charles square in Prage... in google-books: "this square (...) was the largest in medieval Europe" [7], "Karlovo náměstí (Charles square) was and is the largest square in Europe." [8], "Charles square, the biggest urban space in medieval Europe" [9] and in German: "überhaupt der grösste Platz, der im Städtebau Europas zu finden ist, wurde der Prager Viehmarkt, der spätere Karlsplatz (Karlovo náměstí)" (the Prague Cattle Market, later the Charles square (Karlovo náměstí), became the largest square which we can find in the european urbanism (towns)" [10]. Then I found a Czech (paper-)book dealing with the Charles square, it says: "stalo se největším náměstím středověké Evropy", and means: "it became the largest square of medieval Europe" (JAROLÍMKOVÁ, Stanislava: Co v průvodcích nebývá. Prague: 2005, page 48) --Packare 12:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Name change: we've been here before...

• "Main Square, Kraków" -wikipedia 172,000 results
• "Main Market Square, Kraków" -wikipedia 68,800 results
• "Grand Square, Kraków" -wikipedia 33,200 results

"Rynek Główny" does not translate as "Grand" in English. It translates as "Main", because in Polish only "Wielki" means "Grand" as in "Rynek Wielki", which in wrong. I suggest we rename the article again, but this time as the Main Square, Kraków. Poeticbent talk 03:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

• • I agree, that's seems like the best translation. Please move it there; the previous move was done without any discussion here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:59, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

•  Done. Poeticbent talk 13:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

B-class review

This article would be B-class if it had more inline references. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:36, 22 July 2012 (UTC)