Talk:Liu Zhang (warlord)

Contradiction with Liu Yan (Three Kingdoms)

I translated both this article and Liu Yan (Three Kingdoms) from Japanese Wiki. According to this article, Liu Zhang was sent to Liu Yan to admonish him, and was subsequently prevented from going back to the court, which allowed him to avoid the fate of his older brothers who were killed in the battle with Li Jue and Guo Si. However, Liu Yan's article says that Liu Zhang was at the court, and barely escaped capture. Since neither Japanese article cites its sources, I have no idea. If there's anyone who knows for sure which it is, please fix it.--Alex Small 06:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This confusion maybe caused by a linguistic difference. The past and past perfect tenses of a verb are the same for Japanese, but in English language the two verbs may be different. Consider the following statements:

1.) Liu Zhang was at count and barely escaped capture.

2.) Liu Zhang had been at court and barely escaped capture.

Statement no.1 does not include the fact Liu Zhang was sent to Liu Yan before the war broke out, while statement no.2 does not exclude such fact (the statement simply omits mentioning it).

The Japanses line can have the meaning of either statement.

P.S. Liu Zhang was indeed sent back to Liu Yan prior to the war.--EkmanLi (talk) 03:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction as to paternity of Liu Chan (Shan)

Liu Zhang and Liu Bei's articles both say that they are the fathers of Liu Chan. I believe that Liu Bei is the father but this is not verified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bisc0801 (talk • contribs) 16:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The confusion is caused by the Romanization of the words 闡 (Chan) and 禪 (should be pronounced as "Shan' instead of "Chan"). Both Chinese characters are frequently pronounced as "Chan", making foreign readers to mistake Liu Chan (劉闡, Liu Zhang's son)as Liu Shan (劉禪, Liu Bei's son).--EkmanLi (talk) 03:28, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

info contradicts with other info; his sons

The following seems to contradict eachother, if someone could double check it... and edit who's the oldest son and who served which state. It's in the section "Biography" and "Family".

• Soon after surrendering his territory, Liu Bei sent Liu Zhang and his second son Liu Xun to the western part of Jing Province, on the border with Sun Quan's territory. In the year 219, however, forces led by Lü Meng, a subordinate of Sun Quan, captured Liu Bei's general Guan Yu and executed him, seizing Jing Province. Liu Zhang and his son, Liu Xun, were taken in by the Wu forces, and Sun Quan, seeking to establish a claim to the rest of Liu Bei's territory, gave Liu Zhang the title of Governor of Yi Province, which had been his previous title before suffering defeat at the hands of Liu Bei. However, Eastern Wu made no further attempts to invade Liu Bei's territory, and Liu Zhang died shortly after being made a vassal of Sun Quan. His eldest son, Liu Xun, continued to serve in Eastern Wu while Liu Chan served in Shu Han.

• Liu Xun, Liu Zhang's oldest son, defended Yi Province during Liu Bei's attack, served as General of the Household of Equipage in Shu Han
• Liu Chan (劉闡), Liu Zhang's second son, followed his father to Jing Province after their defeat by Liu Bei, served as Palace Assistant Imperial Clerk in Eastern Wu later

Cold Season (talk) 12:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Xun was the eldest, will amend this. Benjitheijneb (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)