Talk:List of genocides/Archive 14

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Should the Dungan Revolt 1862-1877 be added?

the war saw a decline of an ethnic group in China. The population declined by 21 million from war related deaths and famine and displacement. TaipingRebellion1850 (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

It can be added if there is good scholarship calling it a genocide. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Comparison between some lists on wikipedia

I was curious, so I threw together this little comparison chart of what genocides are included in a few lists we have on wikipedia:

List of genocides	Genocides in history Prior to WW1, WW1–WW2, 1946–1999, 2000–	Genocide navbox
	Neanderthal genocide
	Chiefdom genocides
	Destruction of Carthage
	Asiatic Vespers
	Julius Caesar's campaigns (Gauls (Eburones))
	Bar Kokhba revolt
	Jie and Wu Hu
	Zandaqa
	Ancestral Puebloans
	Harrying of the North
	Mongol Empire/Mongol conquests
Albigensian Crusade (Cathars)
	Tamerlane
	Guanches
	Mongols in the Delhi Sultanate
Taíno genocide
	Genocide of indigenous peoples in Brazil
	Kashmiri Shias
	Atlantic Slave Trade
	Genocide of the Huron
	Kalinago
	Pequots
	Great Gypsy Round-up
	Persecution of Huguenots
	Vendee
	War of the Three Kingdoms
	Khmelnytsky uprising
Dzungar genocide
		Chechens
1804 Haiti massacre
		Al-Jawazi massacre
		Siege of Tripolitsa
	Caste War of Yucatán
	Apaches
	Yaquis
	Indigenous Australian
Black War
Trail of Tears
Massacre of Salsipuedes (Charrúa)
	Zulu Kingdom under Shaka Zulu
	Beothuk
Moriori genocide
Queensland Aboriginal genocide
	Native American
	Native American genocide in the United States
	Indian removal
California genocide
	Sand Creek massacre
	1740 Batavia massacre
Circassian genocide
	Conquest of the Desert
	Taiping Rebellion
	Japanese colonization of Hokkaido
	Anti-Romani sentiment (Attempted extirpations of Romani/Gypsies)
Putumayo genocide
	Great Famine (Ireland)
	January Uprising § The decades of reprisals
	Genocide of indigenous peoples § Tsardom of Russia's conquest of Siberia
	British Raj
	Persecution of Yazidis
	Hazaras
	Massacres of Badr Khan
	Congo Free State
	Ethiopia under Menelik II
	French conquest of Algeria
	Colonial Philippines
Selk'nam genocide
Armenian massacres of 1894–1896
Herero and Nama genocide
	Maji Maji Rebellion Ukame
	Balkan Wars
	Persecution of Muslims during the Ottoman contraction
Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars
Greek genocide
Pontic genocide		Pontic Greeks
Armenian genocide
	Diyarbekir
Sayfo
	Destruction of the Thracian Bulgarians in 1913
	Deportations of Kurds (1916–1934)
		Ingrian Finns
	Simele massacre
	Urkun
	Pogroms against Jews
	Decossackization
	Kantō Massacre
		Napalpí massacre
	Japanese colonial empire/ Japanese war crimes
	Musha Incident
Osage Indian murders
Libyan genocide
	Second Italo-Ethiopian War
	Kazakhstan
		La Matanza
Holodomor
	Ma Bufang against the Tibetans
Polish Operation of the NKVD
Parsley massacre
	Nanjing Massacre
Nazi crimes against the Polish nation
Romani Holocaust
		Three Alls policy
The Holocaust
German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war
The Holocaust in Croatia
Genocide of Serbs
Genocide against Bosniaks and Croats by the Chetniks
		Sook Ching
		Nanshitou Massacre
	Volhynia
	Aktion T4
Deportation of the Chechens and Ingush
Deportation of the Crimean Tatars
	Deportations of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians
	Massacres of Albanians in Yugoslavia
	Ethnic cleansing of Germans
	Partition of India
	Hyderabadi Muslims
	Sinicization of Tibet
	Stolen Generation
	Indigenous peoples in Paraguay
Guatemalan genocide
Zanzibar genocide
		1966 anti-Igbo pogrom
	Biafra (1966–1970)
	Genocide of Feyli Kurds
	Equatorial Guinea
	Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66
	West New Guinea/West Papua
Bangladesh genocide
	Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh
Genocide of Acholi and Lango people under Idi Amin	Idi Amin's regime
Ikiza (Burundi 1972)
	Hmong Genocide
East Timor genocide
	Derg
Cambodian genocide
	Chittagong Hill Tracts (Indigenous Chakmas)
Sabra and Shatila massacre
	Genocide of Afghans by Soviet Armed Forces and proxies
Gukurahundi
	Bush War (1981–1985)
Anfal genocide
Isaaq genocide
	Amhara genocide
Bosnian genocide
	Burundi 1993
Rwandan genocide
	Massacres of Hazaras and other groups by the Taliban
	Forced sterilization in Peru
Massacres of Hutus during the First Congo War
	Tamil genocide
	Chechnya
	Boko Haram and Fulani herdsman
Effacer le tableau
Darfur genocide
		Southern Kaduna
	Allegations of genocide against Uyghurs
Iraqi Turkmen genocide
Genocide of Yazidis by the Islamic State
	Shias under ISIS
	Christians under ISIS
Rohingya genocide
	South Sudan
	Yemen
	Ethiopia
	Accusations of genocide in Donbas
	Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine
	Nagorno-Karabakh
	Israel/Palestine

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:52, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, that is very telling! Bondegezou (talk) 12:57, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. My feeling, especially after the change by @Cdjp1 to the definition of "genocide" used in this article, is that this list should be changed to a table with 1-line summaries of the genocides in the Genocides in history articles, so that the list can easily be sorted and searched. When there is an unsettled accusation of genocide (as there is for some ongoing or recent events) or a dispute in scholarship, or if some common definitions of genocide are met but not others, we can add a column or two to indicate that status. AndyBloch (talk) 21:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Long term, I hope to be able to unify the List of genocides, Genocides in history, and Genocide navbox, but this is a large undertaking, and as I have mentioned previously on this page, I do have a lot of IRL priorities so the unification effort is low on my to do list.

As a rough guide to steps, as I would follow,:

1. Any of the genocides listed in List of genocides should be added to Genocides in history
2. any citations for items in List of genocides should be added to the their relevant items in Genocides in history
3. items in Genocides in history should be checked over for any instances of citation needed and corrected (checking ideally through the journals Journal of Genocide Research, Genocide Studies and Prevention, Holocaust and Genocide Studies, and Genocide Studies International)
4. Once these have been completed I would move to adding entries into List of genocides for any items present in Genocides in history that are not already present in List of genocides.

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 May 2024

Hello! I would appreciate it if someone would comment out (place <!-- preceding and --> following) the list references (references within named <ref> tags listed in the {{reflist}} template) named "Milton1992", "USHMM2", and "AxisYugo" to fix unused list-defined reference errors. Thank you! – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 21:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done: I couldn't find the 'USHMM2' ref. Commented out the other 2. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 03:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! The USHMM2 ref is missing because it was removed between me posting the edit request and you acting on said edit request. Also within that time period, the two references you commented out had their use re added, so those refs should actually no longer be commented out. Sorry for the time waste... – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 12:54, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 June 2024

Hello! Could someone please make these edits to fix two cite errors? (This is a reversal of my previous edit request because changes were made to the page between the request and its execution that made it unnecessary.)
In § References:
Line 617:

−

<ref name="Milton1992">{{cite journal |last=Milton |first=Sybil |date=February 1992 |title=Nazi Policies towards Roma and Sinti 1933–1945 |journal=Journal of Gypsy Lore Society |volume=2 |issue=1 |pages=1–18 |url=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015077550120;view=1up;seq=3 |access-date=12 August 2016}}</ref>

+

<!-- ref not used <ref name="Milton1992">{{cite journal |last=Milton |first=Sybil |date=February 1992 |title=Nazi Policies towards Roma and Sinti 1933–1945 |journal=Journal of Gypsy Lore Society |volume=2 |issue=1 |pages=1–18 |url=https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015077550120;view=1up;seq=3 |access-date=12 August 2016}}</ref> -->

Line 625:

−

<ref name="AxisYugo">{{cite encyclopedia |url=https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005456 |title=Axis Invasion of Yugoslavia{{Snd}} Croatia |encyclopedia=Holocaust Encyclopedia |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=2010 |access-date=12 August 2016 |archive-url= |archive-date=}}</ref>

+

<!-- <ref name="AxisYugo">{{cite encyclopedia |url=https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005456 |title=Axis Invasion of Yugoslavia{{Snd}} Croatia |encyclopedia=Holocaust Encyclopedia |publisher=[[United States Holocaust Memorial Museum]] |date=2010 |access-date=12 August 2016 |archive-url= |archive-date=}}</ref> -->

Or revert this edit. Thank you!
— Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 14:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 01:09, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

I request that all the South American Native tribes of South America and the Tribes of that came from Africa be included into the list of genocides. Everyone knows that the South American Native Tribes were wiped out by the Spaniards when Christopher Columbus came to occupy the land and kill the adults and Enslave the adolescents and children. We all know that when they ran out of Southern Native American people, they started aiming for the Africans, wiping out whole villages and tribes of people we will never hear about again. Killing them to grab their children, exposing them to disease or a voyage that they would never make to the new world with the conditions they had to endure. To say that the holocaust was the worst genocide in the world is to spread lies, when the genocide that happened during the slave trade to those who were enslaved in order to build North America and South America happened on a much larger scale than the holocaust. We are talking about billions of people who died and their deaths are being ignored and washed over just because their culture is darker skinned. The shame!! 2600:100A:A111:4C51:CDBC:D96:8247:F056 (talk) 15:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:36, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Add high end deaths for Gaza genocide from New survey

New survey gives a higher death toll for Gaza deaths https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext Vanisherman (talk) 03:28, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2024

The Gaza genocide is false as it does not follow the 10 stages of genocide. 1. Classification 2.Symbolization 3.Dehumanization 4.Organization 5.Polarization 6.Preparation 7.Extermination 8.Denial 9.Cover up The Gaza strip is a current warzone and using the logic being used to say Israel is on a genocide would mean that America during world war 2 geocide the Japanese and the Germans along with other countrys. Sirfartface (talk) 02:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Source reliability

I've opened a discussion at RSN on the reliability of the source "Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential", which cited in this article: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Chinese genocide

The Japanese crimes in China during the second sino Japanese wars are considered genocide no? It definitely should be included The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

We'd need good sources. They were civilian massacres, war crimes for sure, but has there been a genocidal intent? — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:21, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I hope this source is good enough

some sources have called it a genocide, with focus on the nanking massacre and soon ching

https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/handle/1794/25558https://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/nanking.htm

The “three Alls” policy could also be used to argue that there was an established intent, especially with what happened on the ground The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria:, I'm working to unify the lists as per "Comparison between some lists on wikipedia". For actions in Japanese invasion of China, there are multiple specific aspects/instances which have scholarship describing them as genocide/genocidal, besides the Three Alls policy you identified, there is also the Nanjing Massacre.

From the relevant articles potential sources are:

• Three Alls
  • Felton, Mark (2015). "The Perfect Storm: Japanese military brutality during World War Two". The Routledge History of Genocide. Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781315719054-10/perfect-storm-mark-felton (inactive 31 January 2024). ISBN 9781315719054. Retrieved 24 July 2022.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: DOI inactive as of January 2024 (link) (Though I'm not to happy having a Felton source, I'll dig to see if I can find more to add to the main article)
• Nanjing
  • Campbell, Bradley (June 2009). "Genocide as social control". Sociological Theory. 27 (2): 154. doi:10.1111/j.1467-9558.2009.01341.x. JSTOR 40376129. S2CID 143902886. Also, genocide may occur in the aftermath of warfare when mass killings continue after the outcome of a battle or a war has been decided. For instance, after the Chinese city of Nanking was occupied by the Japanese in December 1937, Japanese soldiers massacred over 250,000 residents of the city.

-- Cdjp1 (talk) 16:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

In this case it definitely should be included, the sources are good enough The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:01, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Section for the Kalinago

Glancing through this list, I was a bit surprised there was no mention of the Kalinago or Carib peoples. The depopulation of the native peoples of the Caribbean was probably one of the most complete destructions of a peoples resulting from European colonialism. Is there any objection to their inclusion? NickCT (talk) 12:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think Kalinago genocide would need a lot more academic sources that explicitly describe it using the term genocide. Right now there seem to be none in the article. — MarkH₂₁^talk 12:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. I really don't like that Kalinago genocide article. The subject of the article seems to be a massacre of Kalinago's on a single island. But the Kalinago were massacred on, and or displaced from, many different islands. I feel like the article covers the wrong topic, or only covers a small portion of what is a larger topic. NickCT (talk) 18:35, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I would support adding this to the list. It clearly meets the definition of genocide and there are several academic sources to support it. For example, Lennox Honychurch supports the classification in this paper for the University of the West Indies, and historian Melanie J. Newton describes it as such in her article "The Race Leapt at Sauteurs: Genocide, Narrative, and Indigenous Exile from the Caribbean Archipelago". Additionally Doctor Andreas Buser, a legal scholar from the University of Berlin, says in a 2016 article for the Heidelberg Journal of International Law (here) that the killings of the Kalinago people could be considered genocide. More citations might be helpful (I think this might also be discussed in Chalk and Jonassohn's The History and Sociology of Genocide, but I can't at this moment lay my hand on the passage), but there does seem to me to be something of a consensus. TRCRF22 (talk) 18:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

TRCRF22 if you wouldn't mind adding information from the sources you mention here to the Kalinago article it would be brilliant. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 20:28, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I've added Newton and Buser. Unfortunately I didn't realise that the article under discussion only dealt with one specific massacre rather than the wider persecution of the Carib peoples, which is what Honychurch's paper deals with, so that one doesn't fit into the article. TRCRF22 (talk) 15:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I sorta feel like article's scope is wrong. The subject of the article should be the wider persecution. NickCT (talk) 14:14, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 June 2024

Change the "Proportion of group killed" part of the table to "Other victimization statistics" in order to encompass other type of genocide victimization in these events like displacement, rape, torture, injury, etcetera since it seems some of the boxes in that section seem to be doing that already despite the current name and could add other valuable information to the article. Vanisherman (talk) 18:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

List of non genocides in the lead

The lead of this article is a little bit strange in that it starts off with listing a whole bunch of non genocides in the lead before it has even listed any genocides. Well I think it's important to determine and define what is not included in this list I don't really think we need to give a list of non genocides.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:09, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

i threw the list of non genocides in the lead into a efn—blindlynx 15:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2024

Please make the following change to the article:

−

* More than 10,000 estimated under rubble * At least 87,700 injuries * Damaging or destruction of approximately 80% of homes and 50% of buildings in Gaza * 20% of population facing "catastrophic levels of acute food insecurity" involving "an extreme lack of food, starvation, and exhaustion" * 1,900,000+ internally displaced persons

+

As of July 10, 2024, 1.7% of the residents of the Gaza strip (38,295 out of 2.23 million) have been killed in the conflict, according to the Gaza Ministry of Health.

AndyBloch (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• I disagree with this edit. It's not correct that genocide is just killing large numbers of people. (t · c) buidhe 03:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  It's not a question of what is a correct definition of genocide. These columns in the table are titled Estimated killings and Proportion of group killed, and the information in those columns should only include that information. The Yazidi Genocide Proportion of group killed cell should be changed too. AndyBloch (talk) 09:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Left guide (talk) 05:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I am going to change answered= back to no, because (1) you are asking me to do something that is impossible for me to do under the rules adopted last year for ECP pages, and (2) this seems to me to be a simple change that is primarily removing content that does not belong in the the column. If I'm wrong, then EC editors should start a discussion. AndyBloch (talk) 00:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[subscribe] AndyBloch (talk) 00:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

What rule are you referring to? McYeee (talk) 05:07, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Closing.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 16:11, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2024

Please make the following change to the article:

−

Before the 2015 refugee crisis, the Rohingya population in Myanmar was around 1.0 to 1.3 million. Since 2015, over 900,000 Rohingya refugees have fled to southeastern Bangladesh alone, and more to other surrounding countries. More than 100,000 Rohingyas in Myanmar are confined in camps for internally displaced persons.

+

2% or more of the Rohingya population in Myanmar were killed. (Over 25,000 killed out of a population between 1.0 and 1.3 million.)

AndyBloch (talk) 13:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

• I disagree with this edit. It's not correct that genocide is just killing large numbers of people. (t · c) buidhe 03:46, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

  It's not a question of what is the correct definition of genocide. These columns in the table are titled Estimated killings and Proportion of group killed, and those columns should only include that information. The Yazidi Genocide Proportion of group killed cell should be changed too. AndyBloch (talk) 09:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Left guide (talk) 05:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I am going to change answered back to no, because (1) you are asking me to do something that is impossible for me to do under the rules adopted last year for ECP pages, and (2) this seems to me to be a simple change that is primarily removing content that does not belong in the the column. If I'm wrong, then EC editors should start a discussion. AndyBloch (talk) 00:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done, clearly a good edit and inline with has rest of the info boxes.

Kingsmasher678 (talk) 16:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

List ordering: Reverse or regular chronology

On 14 August I changed the ordering of the table from reverse-chronological to a regular chronology saying reverse reverse chronology -- non-reverse chronology is more encyclopedic (diff). Indeed, it is my view that in general, but especially when historical content in an encyclopedia in concerned, and especially when there is a history-related list, which is effectively a timeline, the ordering needs be chronological, and that reverse-chronological ordering contrary to professional writing in these areas, that it is odd, and even potentially recentist.

This change persisted for 12 days when it was reverted by Vice regent (talk · contribs), with the edit summary of revert, the long standing version of this page has been in reverse chronological order, please seek consensus if you want to change that, will restore other edits (diff).

While I do not dispute that the reverse ordering is the inherited state of things, many errors, flaws and inadequacies are inherited in many articles, which is not a reason not to change from that state to a better state.

Now, Vice regent, kindly produce a substantive rationale for your edit, so that editors may understand how the reverse chronology is better after all.

Pinging one additional editor who has edited the article throughout this period and who certainly must be aware of the change, and might have an opinion on the matter. @Cdjp1: Thanks for sharing your thoughts on whether the ordering should be chronological or reverse-chronological.—Alalch E. 09:55, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I have no strong opinion either way. With that being said, the chronological order would be in line with similar lists on wikipedia, as well as in encyclopedias generally. This, in addition with the constant addition/removal of the most recent genocide to occur no longer being front and centre for readers coming to the article, causes me to lean more on the chronological order side. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 17:15, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Alalch E., @Cdjp1. I prefer reverse chronological order, but I can see the case for non-reverse chronological. The reason is that we have the option of either starting "today" (and going backwards) or starting at 1209. 1209 feels a bit arbitrary, while starting today feels more meaningful. Recent genocides (Rohingya genocide, Yazidi genocide etc) are also likely of greater interest to readers than Albigensian Crusade. Some lists do put latest/current events at the top, like List of non-international armed conflicts, List of accidents and incidents involving transport or storage of ammunition. But many other lists are in regular chronological order.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 23:01, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed that reverse chronological order makes more sense here. As noted, contemporary and recentish events are much more likely to be of interest to our readers. Especially for users on mobile devices, we shouldn't present a loooong list of historical events to scroll through before getting to what they are likely looking for. (And yes, I know that the default sort can be adjusted, but why present this problem to readers who might not know how to adjust sorting.) CAVincent (talk) 05:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

That's a thoroughly unencyclopedic approach. "Serve the reader the most recent genocide" is fine for some web portal, but it's not fine in an encyclopedia. This is a long list of historical events, and it should be understood as a long series of historical events. That is one of the educational purposes of this page.

The ordering should be consistent with Genocides in history (and its subarticles: Genocides in history (before World War I), Genocides in history (World War I through World War II), Genocides in history (1946 to 1999), and Genocides in history (21st century)). This list is just a condensed timeline for that content. It a "Table-format timeline of genocides in history". Genocides in history article does not start its Historical genocides section with Genocides after 2000, it starts it off with Genocides before World War I, and Genocides in history (before World War I) (effectively also a list of genocides, just not in table format) starts with the Neanderthal genocide. —Alalch E. 11:29, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Those are prose articles, not lists. Prose articles are never reverse chronological. But lists can not just be reverse chronological, but also sorted based on other criteria: like death toll (List of wars by death toll), alphabetical (List of battles (alphabetical)) or cost (List of disasters by cost). While I prefer reverse chronological, I think chronological would also work, so lets wait to see what others say.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:44, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Please see:

The list of genocides does not require "frequent daily additions". Genocides are happening, but they are not happening anything near daily.—Alalch E. 00:46, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

• Notified the standalone lists and MoS/Lists talk pages: diff, diff—Alalch E. 00:54, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Responding from the notification: I can see the value of placing more recent entries first, as being more likely of interest to readers. Would some sort of grouping work as an alternative (eg by century)? --Hipal (talk) 01:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

If the more recent events are of interest to readers, they have the articles about the more recent genocides. This list is a comprehensive overview of genocides and it should communicate comprehensively which events in history have been classified as genocide by significant scholarship. "Genocides happening throughout history, since at least the Middle Ages: read a little bit about each one" is the educational value of this page, not serving information about recent events. —Alalch E. 01:08, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I think having it in regular chronological order, with section headers for each century, makes most sense. That's our normal order, as noticed above, and the section headers would allow quick access to the period people are interested in. Gawaon (talk) 06:31, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I think that's a good solution. My main request would be that section headers be the highest level header, because on mobile only those headers are collapsible. I'd propose: Pre-19th century, 19th century, 20th century and 21st century.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:07, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with that. Certainly highest-level. In the current list there are only three pre-19th cent. genocides. So maybe "Before World War I", "World War I through World War II", "1946 to 1999", "21st century" in terms of where to split the table. —Alalch E. 22:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm all for actions that align grouping across our articles covering the topic of genocides, see the "Genocides in history" articles, and the updated Genocide navbox. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 18:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Inclusion of "Persecution of Muslims during the Ottoman contradiction"

This topic is also regarded as genocide and ethnic cleansing. Should be included in this list too. Crxyzen (talk) 00:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide reliable sources that support inclusion—blindlynx 13:53, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Blindlynx Reliable sources are the page itself Crxyzen (talk) 00:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

The article doesn't offer evidence that the events are commonly classified as genocide. — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not seeing these citations, please list them here—blindlynx 15:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

1-) Adam Jones. (2010).Genocide: A Comprehensive Introduction page 65 & 152. "Incorporating a global-comparative perspective on the genocide of the last half-millenium has enabled important advances in the understanding of events central to the genocide studies field – such as the process of Ottoman imperial dissolution, reciprocal genocidal killing (during the "Unweaving" in the Balkans)...The human toll of this "Great Unweaving," from Greece's independence war in the early nineteenth century to the final Balkan wars of 1912–1913, was enormous. Hundreds of thousands of Ottoman Muslims were massacred in the secessionist drive.." DevletGiray (talk) 13:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

2-) Tatum, Dale C. (2010). Genocide at the Dawn of the Twenty-First Century: Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, and Darfur. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 113. ISBN 978-0-230-62189-3. In October 1912, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, and Greece launched an attack to dismember the decaying Ottoman Empire. This war was notable for its brutality. Acts of genocide and mayhem were committed during the war. Civilians were massacred and people's lips and noses were severed. Thus, the relationship between Serbs and Kosovar Albanians began to spiral downward. From this battle, the Serbs gained control of Kosovo, their 'mythic land' of origin. DevletGiray (talk) 13:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

3-) Csaplár-Degovics, Krisztián. Die Internationale Kontrollkommission Albaniens und die albanischen Machtzentren (1913–1914): Beitrag zur Geschichte der Staatsbildung Albaniens (PDF) (in German). p. 41. One of the unexpected experiences of the Balkan Wars 1912-1913 was that the members of the Balkan League committed genocides and other kinds of mass violence against other Nationalities and the Muslim population of the peninsula. Among other things the Albanian state-building project of the Great Powers aimed to prevent further genocide and other acts of violence against the Albanian population and other refugees from Macedonia and to put an end to the anarchy of the country. DevletGiray (talk) 13:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

4-) McCarthy, J. Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821–1922, Darwin Press Incorporated, 1996, ISBN 0-87850-094-4, Chapter one, The land to be lost, p. 1 DevletGiray (talk) 14:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)