Talk:List of In Our Time programmes

Guide to format for Programme List entries

An example of a entry in the Programme List table which is annotated using comments.

! Broadcast date !! Title!! Contributors<br>and positions held at time of broadcast

<!-- Details for new programme row should go below here -->

|-

|<!-- Column 1: Broadcast date --> [https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dwhwt 16 October 2008]

|<!-- Column 2: Title (avoid adding subtitle unless it's part of the program name) --> '''[[Vitalism]]''' 

|<!-- Column 3: Contributors --> {{indented plainlist|
* [[Patricia Fara]], Fellow of Clare College and Affiliated Lecturer in the Department of History and Philosophy of Science at [[Cambridge University]]
* Andrew Mendelsohn, Senior Lecturer in the History of Science and Medicine at [[Imperial College London|Imperial College, University of London]]
* [[Pietro Corsi]], Professor of the History of Science at the [[University of Oxford]]
}}

<!-- end of programme entry -->

|-

The result will should appear like this:

Broadcast date	Title	Contributors
16 October 2008	Vitalism	Patricia Fara, Fellow of Clare College and Affiliated Lecturer in the Department of History and Philosophy of Science at Cambridge University Andrew Mendelsohn, Senior Lecturer in the History of Science and Medicine at Imperial College, University of London Pietro Corsi, Professor of the History of Science at the University of Oxford

Notes

1. The Broadcast Date is also used an external link to the programmes webpage in the archive on the IOT website. The url/weblink to the webpage for any programme will be https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/''xxxxxxxx'', where xxxxxxxx is the 8-character BBC programme identifier.

---

-- Jojas (talk) 00:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Revised note: This formula, based on the broadcast date, did not apply to older programmes when the complete archive of the series was available online, and no longer applies for any of the programmes following the recent revision of the official IOT website and archive. The external links from about 2002 onwards will need to be update.

--Jojas (talk) 14:03, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Guys, I see that someone's been 'helpfully tidying up the layout of the contributors column by putting carriage returns into the editing page. This makes the displayed page look messy with uneven line separation (at least on Chrome, Opera and Firefox, might be different on other browsers). I humbly submit that this does not help. It des make the edit page look better, sure, but that's not what people come here for. Stick to just the a br breaks and thinks look much better.Nickpheas (talk) 16:10, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Template above updated to show the plainlist technique introduced by Bazza7Nickpheas (talk) 10:41, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

And updated again to use {{indented plainlist}} to improve reading. Bazza (talk) 11:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

The Roman Empire's Decline and Fall

Removed the 18 Mar 2004 episode The Roman Empire's Decline and Fall as it's a rebroadcast of the 5 Apr 2001 episode The Roman Empire's Collapse in the 5th century. Source Tom Morris, IOT Producer, comment 32 on IOT Blog, and the content available from the listen again links on the aforementioned episode pages.173.3.179.154 (talk) 00:49, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Needs updating

This programme will now need updating, as the programme on Cleopatra has now been broadcast as of today (Thursday 2 December) - the next programme will be on Edison. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

The programme on Edison has now been broadcast, so can some one please update this page? Thank youACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

See also

template:In Our Time Rich Farmbrough, 08:25, 23 September 2010 (UTC).

Update on May 5 2011

I have just heard the programme on May 5 2011, and it is now history to call the programme on Islamic law "the next programme". The next programme will be on Richard Burton's "Anatomy of Melancholy". I have tried to update the article, but I shall be very appreciative if some one more skilled at tabulation than me could change the presentation of this article so it appears in the table neatly. While I am here, can I say that I do not think this article should really keep saying "Next programme" - would it not be more precise to include precise dates, and to say "programme to be broadcast on"? Just a thought - feedback will be welcome. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:06, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Again, updates are needed - the programme on Xenophon has been broadcast and the next programme is on the Battle of Stamford Bridge. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:57, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Again updates needed (this time badly)

The article should say that the programme broadcast on June 9 will be about immunology. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 09:38, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Just a thought on a title change

This article is called "List of "In Our Time" programmes. I wonder whether it might be better being called "List of "In Our Time" episodes?" Just a thought. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I do not think so. I tend to associate an 'episode' more with drama than factual works, "edition" might be a better word but "programme" seems a suitably neutral term. When I created this article I retained the title of the section of the main IOT article in which it was originally included.--Jojas (talk) 10:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your response, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Very impressive

It impresses me how quickly this article gets updated - the one on the European revolutions was only broadcast tonight (January 19 2012) and already, the article refers to the next edition on the scientific method! Keep up the good work, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, some in doing that - we already have the details of the programme on Erasmus, with details of next programme! Evidently, the good work has been maintained, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:25, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

What is perhaps even more impressive is that details of the first programme of the new series which begins today (September 13 2012) are already there! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Having said that...

Having made my last comment, I regret to say that the programme on semiconductors is no longer "the next programme" - the next programme will be on Benjamin Franklin. Melvyn Bragg even said on the programme that it was the first time, in the programme's history, when a programme would be followed by a topic quite close to the previous week's programme! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:21, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

And now, the programme on the measurement of time has been broadcast - the next programme will be on the Society of Friends. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

OK it is impressive that we have both the latest episode's topic (Bosworth Field) and the next topic (Candide) on April 27 2012 in the early hours! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Links to programmes

On 15 April 2012 GoingBatty removed all of the BBC links which made this article incredibly useful, more useful than anything on the actual IOT website that's for sure. I really hope there's not some obscure wikirule against putting them back in there and that this was just a mistake. Please keep them in the article and keep updating them! Great job on this page otherwise. Planetjanet (talk) 22:04, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

The links are currently to streaming pages. BBC also provides download pages which many of us prefer, but those pages are somewhat difficult to navigate. I wonder if a geek fan might write a script to harvest the download URLs and titles, then match on the titles here to add a new column with download links. (Of course BBC could also create download links from the streaming pages, but they've failed to do that for years now.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jfaughnan (talk • contribs) 23:00, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Excellent!

Excellent - the fact that the next programme will be on Fermat's last theorem is already in the article - keep up the good work. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

I see that the next programme is already mentioned - very impressive! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

This page needs updating again

Bertrand Russell was on last week - this programme was on a different topic this morning. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:48, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

The Persian epic poem, the Shahnameh of Ferdowsi. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:50, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

 Yes on the morning of February 7 2013 it will need another update  - The War of 1812 was the previous programme and the programme on Epicurus is on during February 7 2013. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 09:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The programme on Epicureanism will need to go down as the last programme - the next programme will be on ice ages. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 11:27, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Great - it appears that some one has updated the page now and it is well up-to-date. Thank you, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The article needs updating again - the next programme as from today (February 28 2013) will be about the anthropologogist Pitt-Rivers. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:42, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Again, the article will need updating - the programme on Montaigne was on today (April 25 2013) and the next programme will be on gnosticism. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 09:40, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Great - as from the early hours of April 26, 2013, it is already fully up-to-date now. Thank you to who ever did this, ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:24, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Consistent formatting

The entries in this list of episode have several types of formatting. I think it would be great to agree on an "official" format. I think there are three main inconsistencies:

1) Links to non existing Wikipedia pages

Quite often there is no page for a contributor. Normally this is not a problem, you just get an ugly red link. In case of e.g. "Peter Thompson" a dead link is not a great idea because you cannot know what the lemma will be, if the page will be created.

So I suggest that we only link to existing pages.

2) Links to fields of science

Often the job title of a contributor contains something like "chemistry" or "English Literature". In most cases there is no link to the corresponding Wikipedia page. Since it is often related to the topic of the episode it could be useful to link this more often.

(Related: Should we link something like "Emeritus Professor"?)

3) Weblinks

I think it is enough to have one reference for all three contributors, like in newer entries. In older entries there is also a weblink to the homepage of the contributor. This can be useful, especially when there is no Wikipedia page, but in my option it makes the entry too "busy".

a) A minor issue: I prefer to include "the" and "'s" in internal links, but this is also inconsistent.

Richard Zsigmondy (talk) 09:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you

This is a really fine and useful page, and I'd like to add my thanks for such an excellent resource. Tim riley talk 21:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

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This article needs updating

This article needs updating. In May 2018, we have had an article on Middlemarch by George Eliot and an article on the proton, but these do not appear to be on the list. Vorbee (talk) 20:44, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

At the time of typing, there is a programme being broadcast on the Almoravid Empire - this can now go in the article to make the article fully up-to-date. Vorbee (talk) 20:44, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Had you considered just adding one of more of these yourself? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations

I wish to offer my congratulations to this article on how up-to-date it now is. It is the 14 of June 2018 today, and it already has the topic and people on for the 14 June 2018 - before the programme has even begun. Thank you, Vorbee (talk) 07:48, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Section on Montesquieu

Why is the entry for the programme on Montesquiue duplicated in the table? The programme might be broadcast twice on Thursdays, but the other entries are not repeated in the table twice. Vorbee (talk) 20:55, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I think it was a mistake. I've removed it. Thanks.Martinevans123 (talk) 21:37, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

William Morris

This list can now put in that there was an edition of the programme about William Morris, which was the last programme in the 2017-2018 series before the programme took its summer break. Vorbee (talk) 17:43, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

New series

The article can now be updated with the 2018-2019 series. This series began this morning (September 13 2018) with a programmme on the Iliad.Vorbee (talk) 08:12, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Impressive ... But...

I am very impressed that this article have the people on the programme on Marie Antoinette named, before the programme has even finished. However, it says this programme was broadcast on November 7, 2018 and this programme was, in fact, broadcast on November 8 2018. Vorbee (talk) 09:30, 8 November 2018 (UTC) All right, as no one seems to have corrected this date, I have done it myself now. Vorbee (talk) 18:50, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Small details often get lost or overlooked in tables, I think. I guess you'll be even more impressed that the programme on the Long March is already fully posted before the day of broadcast has even arrived.... Martinevans123 (talk) 20:48, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Yes, that is certainly very impressive! Vorbee (talk) 15:23, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

It was a good one..... By the end, I think Melvin almost understood it. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Just to say I find the science and history programs immensely interesting and this page is a valuable tool in terms of providing an efficient index.

Thank you. JRPG (talk) 16:03, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Very impressive

I am very impressed that this article has the details of a programme on Venus to be broadcast on 27 December 2018 a week ahead of its broadcast. Vorbee (talk) 21:32, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

Matthew Nicholls

The link to "Matthew Nicholls" who is down there in the collection of people discussing Nero and down there as an Oxford academic takes one to an article on an Australian football umpire of that name. Vorbee (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

 Done Now unlinked. (He actually appears three times). Martinevans123 (talk) 16:24, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Be careful about wikilinks

I think that people who put names in wikilinks ought to be careful about getting their wikilinks to the right article in Wikipedia. On the details for the programme on Frankenstein, there was a wikilink to Jane Thomas, that took one to the wrong Jane Thomas. Jane Thomas is down there as an academic at the University of Hull - but this took one to a Jane Thomas who was the wife of an American colonel who fought in the American revolution in the eighteenth century. I have now removed this wikilink, but can I please make a plea that when people put the names of the academics who speak on the programme in wikilinks, the wikilink does actually take us to an article on the appropriate academic. Vorbee (talk) 20:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC) People still need to be careful about Wikilinks - there is a link to "Elizabeth Phillips", and it takes us to a martial arts instructor. Vorbee (talk) 17:45, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I have delinked Elizabeth Phillips. There is a very large inconsistency in the use of inline external links to the personal academic web pages, particularly for contributors who have no Wiki article. Not sure how best to resolve this. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:55, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

This page needs updating again

This list needs updating again. It has a sub-heading "2019-2020" and there have now been several programmes in this series, but it only has the details of the one about Napoleon's retreat from Russia. Vorbee (talk) 07:51, 8 October 2019 (UTC) I see it has been updated, so thank you to whoever has done that. Vorbee (talk) 08:27, 10 October 2019 (UTC) It can now be updated as it has had a programme on The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. People on were Amanda Reese, Simon James and Simon Schaffer. Vorbee (talk) 20:34, 17 October 2019 (UTC) This article needs updating again - it does not have the details of the programme on November 14 2019, which was on Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment, or the programme on November 21 2019, which was on Queen Melisson of Jerusalem. I have raised the needs for updates at WikiProject BBC and WikiProject Radio, and hope some one in one of these WikiProject groups will be able to do the necessary updates. Vorbee (talk) 21:44, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done Have added placeholders. Some more linking still required. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Crime and Punishment

Would some one more skilled than me care to put in the names of the people who were on in the programme on Crime and Punishment, please? They were Sarah Hudspith at the University of Leeds, Oliver Ready at the University of Oxford and Sarah Young at University College London. Vorbee (talk) 09:40, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done In-line external links still required. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:17, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Listener's week

Should this list indicate which are the programmes which are "Listener's week", which are suggestions for a programme sent in by listeners? The programme on Moby Dick was based on suggestions sent in by listeners, and so is the programme I am listening to at the moment on T.E. Lawrence. Vorbee (talk) 09:28, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

This page will need revision

This page will need revision. It has the programme broadcast on March 19 2020 as being on Fernando Pessoa, but the programme was actually on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. This programme was pulled out of the archives. In the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, the BBC has been rescheduling programmes. Vorbee (talk) 17:48, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Programme on Pericles

There has been a new series of this programme, beginning on September 17 2020. This was on Pericles and had Edith Hall, Paul Cartlidge and Peter Liddle on - ergo, the article can now be updated. Vorbee (talk) 08:25, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Obviously it's done now, but rather than posting on the talk page pointing out that the article could do with an update, you can do it! The formatting for tables is a little more faffy than a man wikipedia page, but it's easy enough to infer. We are all part of the community.Nickpheas (talk) 08:43, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Very impressive

I was very impressed to see the details of the programme on medieval pilgrimages are already there on February 11 2021, a week before this programme will be broadcast. Not for the first time, I am sure Wikipedia must be the most up-to-date encyclopedia in the world. Rollo August (talk) 11:19, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

It's a real thoroughbred. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Lear (2007–2008)

Inhighspeed insists the programme the BBC calls "Lear" is in fact called "King Lear", despite providing no evidence, and repeatedly reverting attempts at correction contrary to WP:BRD: here, here and here. Is there any evidence to support their assertion? Bazza (talk) 08:47, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

I can see no evidence. But the subject matter was King Lear, which is apparently a play by some guy from Stratford. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:54, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. The second column is for the official programme title, but convention has been to link it to any Wikipedia article; so in this case Lear. Bazza (talk) 09:08, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, they do sometimes shorten the title or use one different to the Wiki article title. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:11, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Agree. I think Inhighspeed has misunderstood the page: It's an index for the radio show, not an index of the subjects of the show. Gods know though, there's a temptation to try and recast some of those early titles into subjects of Wikipedia articles.Nickpheas (talk) 08:23, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Piped links generally work. In this case I'd agree that some readers might assume the programme was about this one. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:36, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, they might. But the column's purpose is for the programme titles, which the BBC determines, not us. I suppose there's a case for adding another column describing each programme's content; lots of work, though. Bazza (talk) 12:20, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Well maybe. But it would be 99% redundant. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

And Bazza has only recently taken out about 150 spurious descriptions...Nickpheas (talk) 13:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Jumping the gun

This reversion stated (@Nickpheas:) that it's been practice for years to add entries for programmes as soon as they appear on the BBC website. All well and good but it means, for example (writing this on 28 Jan 2022), that this external link in the "Broadcast date Listen again" column 3 February 2022 leads to a BBC web page which states "Sorry, this episode is not currently available". The link and information given as presented are not true. I would argue that we shouldn't WP:CRYSTALBALL but wait until the programme's actually started; the details can be entered but commented out as I had done in this case. I suspect others will disagree, in which case I propose that the dates and links for programmes not yet broadcast are removed. I've been WP:BOLD and done this for the one mentioned above as a means of illustration. Bazza (talk) 13:30, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Counter position is that I think people find it useful (there are comments above praising the practice) to have the summary in place to let people know what to think about/expect/look at the reading list for. I would totally agree that it's jumping the gun to use the teaser picture which is often posted on the BBC to infer the subject - I often use reverse image search to do this for my own amusement but wouldn't post here. I'm aware of only one instance where this caused information which turned out to be inaccurate, when an episode was forecast for late March 2020 and then pulled because of the first UK Covid lockdown. Do we have reason to think a guestlist is often changed? I've certainly not noticed it. IF we were to change practices then we need to do the proper publish straight away.

Does anyone else have an opinion?Nickpheas (talk) 13:54, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Just to clarify: this page is to record information, not promote the BBC's radio programmes. I am proposing only to remove the (visible) date and link in the "Listen again" column because it is a falsity. The other details can remain, with their own reference to the BBC page if needed for verification. The date can be published when the programme's available, although there's no obligation in Wikipedia for when that needs to be done by. An alternative would be to remove the wording "Listen again" from the tables, which would remove the falsehood. Bazza (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks to User 2ao2a310e143

Many thanks to User 2AOo2:A310:E143:CEOO: AD51:AE29: 674F, for updating this list so that it includes a reference to the programme on Antigone. I put in that this page needed updating on the talk page of Wikipedia: WikiProject Radio. It is good to see that WikiProjects are serving a useful function! Many thanks for the update. YTKJ (talk) 18:29, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

What ever has happened to this list?

What ever has happened to this list? It used to be updated regularly, but now, in January 2023, does not list the programmes that have appeared since October 2022. It does not mention the programme on Wilfred Owen broadcast on October 26 2022, or the programme on the Morant Bay Rebellion broadcast on November 3 2022. I shall be contacting WikiProjects to alert them to how badly this article needs to be updated. YTKJ (talk) 21:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is updated by amateurs. If those amateurs are no longer available, that's just one of those things. You can learn (or be shown) how to update the article yourself. If other editors aren't available you could become a contributor instead. 22:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC) doktorb _words^deeds 22:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@YTKJ There were some other editors who did a good job of keeping this up to date. Maybe they have other things to do now? I'll update the list this afternoon to bring it up to date. Bazza (talk) 13:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@YTKJ The list is now up to date as far as 19 January 2023. I will attempt to repeat the exercise monthly unless you or other contributors get there first. Bazza (talk) 14:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)