Talk:Labrador Retriever/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Citation not found

citation 36 goes to a 404 page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.94.130.157 (talk) 15:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Possible Vandalism

I'm curious how much of this is true

The otter-like tail and webbed toes of the Labrador Retriever make them amazing swimmers. Their interwoven coat is also relatively waterproof, providing more assistance for swimming. The tail acts as a rudder for changing direction.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.249.174.68 (talk) 19:25, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

It's all true —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.146.232 (talk) 07:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

In Advertisement

Cottonelle uses yellow Lab puppies in their bitchy commercials for their toilet paper.--71.180.201.118 (talk) 01:35, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I need help classifying a mix of dog that includes this dog

Ok the dog is a mix between a Lab and Pit and say that one of their female mutts had puppies with a pit what do I call them? --Yowiki (talk) 04:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a mixed-breed dog mutt. How hard was that?  ;-) (talk) 18:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

"strong Puritan beliefs" in the "Geordie Orthodox" breed???

I think there's possibly some vandalism occurring... at the end of the "Crossbreeds" section is the following:

  The 'Geordie Orthodox' breed is known for its strong Puritan beliefs and overall demeanour
  of God-inspired righteousness. They generally have fine glossy black coats.

It looks highly suspect to me, but I'm no expert on dog breeds, so rather than delete it, I bring it to the group's attention. Perhaps there *IS* a "Geordie Orthodox" breed, although in that case the rest of the description strikes me as being silly in a DOG description...

--SpiralBound (talk) 15:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Female Labs more Independant?

I have never heard any such thing. In fact, I've heard and seen the opposite. I've always known Females to be more dependent and Males more aloof.Anyway, there is no real proof of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AlaskanWolf (talk • contribs) 19:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Settlers & Dates

In the History section, it says the lab was the result of ad hoc breeding by Canadian settlers in the mid to late 15th century. What settlers are these? Columbus didn't show up until 1492 (the late 15th century). Or should it just be changed to 16th century, thus referring to the mid to late 1400's? OwenSaunders (talk) 16:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Sores

I had a Golden Lab that would sometimes develop sores on it's legs. I thought it was a result of rubbing off fur while inside of a doghouse which may not have been quite large enough. I had a Vet tell me they were prone to some kind of virus, and used a veterenary version of neosporin for it. Jokem (talk) 14:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

My lab also has one of these sores, I think. It looks like a bald spot and protrudes outward like a bruise about the size of a quarter. She doesn't feel any pain from it and it eventually reduced down to a small spot the size of a dime. The vet said that she must have cut her leg and it gotten infected, but that it appeared to be healed and that the current bump is just a scar. 76.30.27.85 (talk) 14:40, 2 July 2008 (UTC)Kerry (7/2/08)

For one thing there is no such thing as a GOLDEN lab. That would be called a YELLOW labrador. If you give the dogs something to lay on instead of a hard surface it wouldnt have gotten the sores on the legs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cazadorlabs (talk • contribs) 19:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Mini Labs?

This paragraph of recent addition should probably be deleted since (a) there are no citations and (b) experienced Lab breeders have never heard of such a thing as a "mini Lab" and (c) stating the cost of any dog, not just a mini Lab, is relative and inappropriate for an encyclopedia entry. Basically, there is no such thing as a mini Lab, they are not worth $10,000, and without citations this should be deleted (the paragraph in question is below). 71.227.161.172 (talk) 20:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

"In addition, miniature labrador retrievers or "Mini-Labs" have been a distinct breed since the mid 1600s. French hunters bred them for their slender build and quickness which is better suited for retrieving small game. Mini labs look exactly like their larger counter parts except for their significantly lower body weight and height. A full grown miniature lab can grow to be 15-20 inches tall and weigh between 18 and 23 pounds (compare this to around 80 lbs. for a full grown lab.) Due to large international demand and small litter sizes mini-labs are rare and can cost as much as $10,000."

Regarding Height and Weight

I have heard from lab breeders of their being a distinction between standard labs and "sporting" labs. I have the latter. She is in good health, almost 4 years old, not overweight - and yet she is considerably larger than the listed heights and weights in this article. I'm not sure on the height, but she is currently weighing in at 93lbs and the vet says she's in fantastic shape. Also, while she is not registered, both of her parents were full-blooded, registered labs. I don't know if the article needs to be amended to allow for this or not. Any thoughts? 76.30.27.85 (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2008 (UTC)Kerry, Houston, Tx (7/2/08)

labs are very destincitive smart dogs there is not one but two breeds of labs. english and americanfeild labs one is short and stubby the other is long and lanky. i have one of beachcroft study in black pups her name is bindi she will show soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.91.118 (talk) 22:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.27.85 (talk)

Regarding the lead photo at the top of the article: What is that tall, skinny yellow dog posing as a Labrador Retriever doing on this page? How about something more representative of the breed standard? 161.19.64.5 (talk) 16:08, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I have included a picture of one of my Labradors for the lead-in. She is of English stock and her parents were both show champions. Erikeltic (talk) 23:09, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

FA

This could be an FA with a little work. Sumoeagle179 (talk) 15:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

History Makes no Sense

The History section is quite confusing. First Labs born in 1850 in Europe? Yet the rest of the sections ties them to Newfoundland in the 1820's or earlier, even referring to them as Labradors. This is all tied to one source which is now a dead link so I can't even try to fix it, but didn't want to just delete it wholesale. Arzel (talk) 18:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You are right that it is poorly presented. You are also right about the missing supporting material. Still, the breed has its origins in dogs from Newfoundland which made their way to England in the first half of the 19th century. There, English breeders developed the modern appearance and ultimately the breed standards. While we like to think of the Labrador as Canadian, in fact the standard and the modern breed originates in England, from Canadian dogs. See, [1]. Awsguy1 (talk) 01:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

I removed the first paragraph of the history since it was unsupported and chronologically out-of-sequence with the rest of the section. Coaster1983 (talk) 03:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Article spelling

Ok, we need to settle this. The users that change the spelling to American, please explain yourself here. The article is supposed to use British spelling, do not change it without a good reason. If you do not respond with a legitimate reason, I will report your edits as vandalism. --PlasmaTwa2 05:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I greatly dislike British spelling favoring on Wikipedia. CPO PiEman August 2008

Come up with an actual reason. --PlasmaTwa2 18:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

That is my reason, and I'm sticking with it more now than before. CPO PiEman August 2008

Why, is big bad Wikipedia man making you feel uncomfortable? Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. If you revert the page again with another bullshit reason like that I will report you. --PlasmaTwa2 19:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Please present a neutral point of view and refrain from personal attacks and hostility on wikipeda. CPO Pieman August, 2008

Due to your violation of Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, you have recieved your final warning. If you vandalise the page again, I will report you again and you will be blocked. Also, please put links to the correct pages when you accuse someone of doing something. --PlasmaTwa2 19:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, I am in agreement with Plasma. Although there is no set rule for British vs. American spelling at Wikipedia, the articles should appear internally consistent. Since the Labrador breed originated in Canada, and Canada uses British spelling, colour my vote British!THD3 (talk) 01:48, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

—————— Uhm. The previous statement is an affront: wiki is universal. Wiki policy is to respect the regional spelling variant of the author.

National varieties of English

See also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (spelling)

The English Wikipedia has no general preference for a major national variety of the language. No variety is more correct than the others are. Users are asked to take into account that the differences between the varieties are superficial. Cultural clashes over spelling and grammar are avoided by using the following four simple guidelines. see policy 142.46.8.22 (talk) 23:25, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Americans and Brits have differences over what constitutes a Labrador anyway, so why should the spelling be any different? The British spelling is used in virtually every country that speaks English, except for the United States. I'm ambivalent on what spelling is used, but I am curious why the British spelling was used here. My guess would be that it was used because the breed comes from Canada and was developed in England. It's not like the wiki is about Benjamin Franklin or the American Pit Bull, so it doesn't make any difference to me. Erikeltic (talk) 13:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Extra period

The second sentence of the "Appearance" section has a typo (a period after "fault"), the a continuation of the sentence to "under AKC standards".

I'd love to fix it, but the article is locked.

Joseph.slater (talk) 19:49, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}}

Under DESCRIPTION, APPEARANCE there is an incomplete, incorrect, and somewhat confusing sentence: "Anything close or over 100 lb is considered obese or a major fault. under AKC standards,[7] but some labs do become overweight and may weigh significantly more."

At the very least, the period after "fault" is out of place.

Possible change: "Although some labs can weigh significantly more, anything close to or over 100 lbs is considered obese or a major fault under AKC standards. [7]"

blueorbit (talk) 02:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I've reworded the sentence using part of what you suggested. Pyrospirit (talk · contribs) 23:36, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Demography

In the article it's written that the largest number of labradors are registered in USA, although the table below shows that 18554 Labradors are registered in UK, and 10833 in USA, I think this should be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.212.206.241 (talk) 13:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Lab Colors

The statement that there is no such thing as a silver lab is false. I own a silver lab, and she is asleep next to me as I read this. Her parents are a black and a chocolate lab. And is bred for her color. Cutieterrier (talk) 21:18, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

There are several other colors of labs, they can vary from Fox Red, White, Yellow, Chocolate, Black, Charcoal also referred to as a smokey colored black lab, and silver. And if you do the research for the history of labs and how they came to be you will find that there is a reason you see silver, and charcoal labs provided they are bred for that color. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.151.216 (talk) 02:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Labradors should never be bread specifically for colour and the following needs to be said; even if it can't be included in the article (despite the dozens of citations I could use to verify each and every one of the following statements).

Here are some important facts about silver Labradors:

1. The earliest examples of silver Labradors were in the late 1940s and early 1950s in the western United States.

2. Silver Labradors have never spontaneously occurred anywhere from a line that didn't originate in the United States.

3. The kennel where silver Labradors first appeared also bred Weimaraners, which more than likely introduced the Dilution gene.

4. The AKC, the CKC, and the UKC do not write the standards for any breed. These organisations are just the registrars of various breeds. The Labrador Clubs in America, Canada, the UK, and Australia do not recognize silver as a breed trait, so being AKC registered is wholly irrelevant as to whether or not the registrar is willing to accept your money and tell you your dog is purebred when in fact one of its grandparents (or great-grandparents) was probably a Weimaraner that jumped the fence.

5. The dilute gene is recessive, which means that both parents need to be carriers in order for the silver colour to come through completely. That requires inbreeding in the early stages of silver cultivation.

6. Many "silver Labrador" owners are quite happy with their pets, but there are hundreds of horror stories out there about sickly and inbred silver Labradors.

7. Silver Labrador breeders use deception to sell their dogs. If there was nothing dishonest going on, why create bogus stories such as the one about geneticists at Berkeley conducting DNA tests that proved "silver Labradors" where in fact purebred? Those tests never happened and reports of DNA being used to verify Labrador lineages are lies.

8. And finally, There is a sucker born every minute willing to shell out thousands of dollars for rare and curious objects of fascination, including pets.

My advice to anyone wanting to get a silver Labrador is don't. Breed standards exist for a reason and are what determines what makes a Labrador a Labrador and a Poodle a Poodle. If you love Labradors, then don't throw your money away on a falsehood and stick to the breed standard. Erikeltic (talk) 04:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a multicolored lab....NOT TRUE

I have one, bought from a local breeder. His dog had nine pups (yellow lab mom, black dad), 5 all black and 4 multicolored ones. He said he had done DNA testing on the multi colored ones and they came back lab. When I registered him with the AKC I sent his picture and they classfied him as black. He looks like a lab with tan eyebrows like a dachsund or Rotti. He has some yellow on his muzzle and on his chest. He also has this yellow color on the underside of his legs. He has all lab traits and is double coated and web footed. I was so tired of having everyone questioning his parentage that I had him DNA tested myself. He will be three in April. He tested all lab. The tests showed no other breeds present or the percentages were to small to count. They had no picture, no information other than his name, so it was truly a blind test. I would love to put up his picture, unfortunately, I am technically challenged. The best part, is he is all lab, wouldn't hurt a fly but the best guard dog ever because people assume Rotti and move away. Lab owner (talk) 18:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I love this dog I have one and she rocks she is so cute and awsome —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.141.205.99 (talk) 22:03, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I am a Labrador enthusiast, and while I don't believe the silver Labrador is anything more than a Lab/ Weim mix, I know for a fact that there are multi-colored Labradors. I have seen them born from two black Labrador parents. The reason for it is that when the Labrador was being perfected as a breed, Gordon Setters were sometimes used to introduce desirable traits. These mixes were approved and helped give us the Labrador that everyone knows today. However, every now & then some of those Gordon Setter genes show up and a Labrador comes out looking just as you described. Erikeltic (talk) 19:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Life Span

yeah me and 4 of my friends all got Labrador Retrivers not from the same litter, all born within minutes of each other and they are 16 years old and still run around like puppies. but the life span says they live till 13! this has to be wrong but I can't figure out how to fix it CAN SOMEONE HELP ME???

The AKC Stand on Registration of Silver Labradors

Response of Jack Norton of the AKC on 1/24/00 giving AKC official position on the issue of Silver Labs.

The registry of the American Kennel Club is based on parentage and not the coat color of a member of any breed.

In 1987 the AKC, in corporation with the Labrador Retriever Club of America, conducted an inquiry into the breeding of litters that contained members that were registered as silver. An AKC representative was sent to observe these dogs. The report and color photographs of these dogs were reviewed by AKC staff and representatives of the Labrador Retriever Club of America. Both Parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers, however they felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard at the time described chocolate as ranging in shade form sedge to chocolate, it was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate rather than silver. This remains the current policy of the American Kennel Club.

Jack Norton Special Services Dept

Anonymous Contribs

Does anyone else find it odd that the moment this wiki became unprotected, dozens of anonymous contributors started vandalizing the page and adding superfluous information. So far I've rolled back somebody including their own guide dog and Gweneth Paltrow's labrador in the famous labs section. Really? Perhaps another protection is in order? I'm thinking so if this continues.... Erikeltic (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I restate my position on these anonymous "contributions". Does anyone else believe that the article should be semi-protected? Erikeltic (talk) 13:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

No. There haven't been that many changes, compared to some other articles on Wikipedia. If an unacceptable edit is made, best to leave a message on the user's talk page and revert the edit - for now. If the editor gets out of hand, he/she can be warned then blocked. Protecting a page is really a measure of last resort.THD3 (talk) 21:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Epilepsy

Am I wrong or isn't epilepsy (particularly in male labs) a bit more frequent than in most other breeds. One of my labs had it and his vet told me this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.232.224 (talk) 16:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I believe this is found often in German Shepherds. Of the 9 Labradors I've had in my life none of them or their siblings or parents have had it & I have never heard of a Lab having it. Erikeltic (talk) 04:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

chocolate labs

I have two chocolate labs, one is the mother, she had a litter of 12, she and all of the puppies (all chocolate) have a white spot on their tails about 3-4 inches from their back. Is this some kind of trait? If anyone knows what this is please let me know.

Thank you, Kitty Garsow{{}}

White spots can pop up in litters randomly, but [most] kennel clubs disqualify any dog that has white patches, unless they are on their chests or sometimes feet. As long as you don't plan to show them, or breed the puppies, there should be no problems with them having that sort of coloring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xemptybrkneyesx (talk • contribs) 11:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

white spots on the feet is a disqualification as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.186.84.122 (talk) 03:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

black labs ears

is it normal for a4 month old lab to have puffy ear lobes ? they feel almost like a zit that you would pop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.250.11 (talk) 00:26, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

labs

they are easy to get alone with they are never mean!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.139.202.70 (talk) 15:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Labrador Retriever coloring

Are labs Always a solid color. I noticed that one of the Yellow (golden) labs on this web site has a small patch of white hair on the chest. Is this considered common or okay for the breed? How about on black labs? Do they sometimes have that small white patch as well?

Paula —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.86.156 (talk) 00:13, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure it's perfectly normal, My black lab has white on his chest, chin and two back paws but this is to do with the fact that he is 1/4 border collie (sheepdog.) I loves him lots though i do! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.239.111.94 (talk) 15:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

It's called a medallion. It's acceptable in black labs. You'd have to check the breed standards in your country to see about yellows. 64.5.236.254 (talk) 16:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Stomach Twisting

Labs are also prone to stomach twisting. Their stomach flips because, unlike most dogs Labs stomachs are not connected to their rib cage, so when they are running around, their stomachs move around and sometimes cause them to flip. This occurs when they eat or drink too much, then they exercise afterwards causing their stomach to flip. This doesn't seem to have any citations or explanations as to how serious or common this problem is. I was just wondering. 95.109.102.252 (talk) 22:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like Bloat, which is also known as gastric dilatation-volvulus. It is a serious medical condition that needs treatment immediately.

I have removed the text from the article temporarily until a reference can be found. This should not be too hard, since a Google search turns up many links about Bloat and Labradors. We just need to find a peer-reviewed medical journal to back up the statements.Coaster1983 (talk) 23:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

excessive defecation

my lab defecates heavily 4 times a day. is this normal?---- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjgodfrey88 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

aw

I used to have a black lab. He ran away —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.178.138.78 (talk) 15:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

i Have a german shepard/lab mix and im buying another lab will the new lab go well with my german shepard\lab mix? Wikiman70125 (talk) 16:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Great Names for Black Labradors

I have a black lab and though she was for our dad, me and my twin sister thought of names for her.

• Mocha
• Blackie
• Night
• Spirit
• Midnight
• Luna

Boy Names

• Coal
• Ghost
• Moon
• Blackie
• Spirit
• Lunar

Did you know a black lab loves the water? Use that to spark your imagination while naming a black lab. They were also bred to hunt so use that also! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.190.224.240 (talk) 18:11, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Lead Picture

Am I alone in thinking that the lead picture for this article should be of a Black Lab, rather than a yellow lab, because that was the original breed standard & is currently the most popular variety of Labrador? Why was it changed? Erikeltic (talk) 00:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Several reasons. The purpose of a lead picture is to illustrate the topic (in this case, the breed). Black on black, as a color combination, is notoriously poor for that purpose - the anatomical and body form detail one can see in the historic (yellow) lead pic is very much greater than that visible on most black lab images. In simple terms you can see contours, muscle, texture, and shadings a lot better on the yellow lab image.

Secondly, the actual picture is superior for showing the topic. The lab in the yellow picture is standing, the tail shows the "otter" and typical curve, the texture of the hair ("short, dense, smooth") is better shown, the body proportions are shown clearer because it is standing/moving, not sitting (which obscures the format of the rear part of the dog), it probably captures interest better since action is implied in the pose, and so on.

(It's also to my eye closer to the look of an "encyclopedia" image than a "pet owners home photo" image, with better lighting effect, if one evaluates the photo on its pure technical merits.)

As for the other point, again, the aim of the lead is to illustrate as clearly as possible the breed. While the black coloring was originally the preferred one, the rest of your comment is apparently mistaken. There are two sources cited on lab colorings, both show that yellow labs have become if anything marginally more popular these days (1995 onwards) than their black fellows. For example this site notes yellows as consistently more popular since 1995 for dogs where a color was given (Color distribution along the years).

Likewise this site notes what appears to be more rigorous data, that of all OFA examined labs between 1996 - 2008 (12 years), 43,440 (37.7%) were black and 46,659 (40.5%) yellow. Both show that the total labs in the database over almost 140 years are still only slightly biased to black labs, a fact mostly due to their preponderance in the 1800s, ie when there were formally no yellow labs anyway (yellows became first recognized only in 1899). A chart of lab colors for each year year on this website also matches the data on the first site, it shows black vs yellow by decade with yellows being slightly more popular in 7 out of the last 9 covered years (1994 - 2002 except 1996 and 2001) which matches the first websites data.

So even if we made the lead by popularity rather than clarity to the user, it would arguably be the same.

Hope this helps. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 00:48, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Update, I just checked this with the OFA's raw data link - a rough total confirms this. During the 5.25 years Jan 2004 - March 2009, there were 71007 individual dogs of this breed examined by OFA, after removing 810 duplicate entries (multiple tests on the same animal). The color ratios were: black 26565 (37.4%), choc 13940 (19.6%), yellow 30025 (42.3%) other/unspecified/unclear 477 (0.7%). The figures for the last complete year ended March 2009 (to avoid seasonal variation) are black=38.5% choc=18.4% yellow=42.2% out of 12427 animals examined. While examinations are not the same as registrations, it's suggestive. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 03:21, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I can live with that--as long as the English version of the dog is well represented. So far, most of the pictures are of the American version. The black Labrador I put up is an ideal version of the English variety. FWIW, I like the yellow that is up there now vs. the one from before when I initially replaced the lead picture a few months back. If you take a look through the history, I pulled that yellow version from German wikipedia because ours had somebody's leg in it. Erikeltic (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I have emailed an English club to ask if they can supply some more images of the English variant, in different colors. If they do, and they are of good quality, I will upload them to Commons for use. Are Australian variants sufficiently distinctive to warrant a picture? FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 17:59, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so.. and FWIW, we already have a good picture of the English variety. Erikeltic (talk) 18:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Is it really proper to have an obviously photoshopped photograph as a lead image? The owner has been shopped out leaving artifacts behind the dog at it's shoulder level, both above and below. Original at http://up.wiki.x.io/wikipedia/commons/archive/6/60/20091130211535!YellowLabradorLooking.jpg. 66.193.253.202 (talk) 16:01, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Erikeltic ^(Talk) 16:14, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

The retouching of photographs is common and goes back over a century - long before technologies such as Photoshop. Any number of articles at Wikipedia have an lead image that is in some manner retouched. The dog's appearance in the photo in question was not altered, the handler was merely removed. There is nothing wrong with the lead image. Also, and this is subjective, but lighter colors tend to photograph better in natural light than darker ones. If we were to replace this with a photo of a chololate or black Lab, it would probably look less natural than the existing picture. (Nothing against darker Labs myself, my own mutt is a Chocolate Lab mix.THD3 (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

guard dogs

Resolved

The intro to the "Temperament" section (before sub-sections start) says Labs are not good guard dogs. The "Use as Working Dogs" sub-section says they are. Obviously, one of those is wrong. 173.64.118.62 (talk) 22:24, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the text in the "Use as Working Dogs" since it was unreferenced.Coaster1983 (talk) 01:51, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Breed Origin

The information concerning this breed is listed as "developed as a breed in the UK" While I am sure that work has been done there concerning the develpment of the existing breed for show and "conformation" this breed has a rich history in Canada as a working dog. I feel that this atricle does not reflect the breeds true origin and purpose and is somewhat revisionist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.126.133.82 (talk) 06:20, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Citation issue

Cite 9 ( http://www.pslra.org/html/articles/faqs.htm ) appears to incorporate much of its material from previous copies of this article. In earlier revisions other sources existed and these should be used instead. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 09:40, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Long Haired Golden Retriever

What about the long-haired Golden Retriever?

Isn't this also a recognised variant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.56.17 (talk) 17:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Retrievers are a separate breed, not a variant of a Labrador. Labradors are designated as "Yellow" by the registry, regardless of shade, to avoid confusion on this point. Steorling (talk) 21:06, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Dudley Lab Picture

I'm not sure why the picture of the dudley lab keeps being taken out. The dudley is a recognized coat/skin color variant, and the picture has been on the site since 2007, at least. What's the sudden push to remove it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.172.42 (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Colour genetic update

I have updated the Colour section to reflect the new understanding of canine coat colour genetics. I have included a reference. I have also corrected an apparent confusion between the E locus and the D locus. As it stands now, it reflects the mainstream view as of 27 July, 2011. Collieuk (talk) 16:47, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

File:St johns dogs pic.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 08:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Part relating to obesity reads like a moral judgment

The part about obesity in health reads like a Purina-sponsored feeding guide. There is no single proper way to prevent the obesity of an animal, because it depends heavily on the specific animal in question. Either way, a discussion about this does not belong in the page for the Labrador breed, because obesity isn't a breed-specific problem. Unless someone can reformat it to be neutral and just list the Labrador-specific facts, I move it should be removed entirely. 62.106.56.231 (talk) 22:23, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

picture

Just asking, why was the image of the Lab playing with water removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tobyflanderson24 (talk • contribs) 16:37, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure which picture you're referring to, but a lot of times this article seems to be a place where people put pictures of the dogs they know and love -- and while I can apprecaite that, I too would revert something if it didn't add any substance or increase understanding in the wiki. Erikeltic ^(Talk) 01:33, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Invalid ref removed

I removed a ref that cited—and pointed to—an article that no longer exists on the named site. The ref is:

<ref name="salabclub">{{cite web | last =Tassieyy | first =Raye | title =A Lab is | publisher =Labrador Retriever Club of South Australia Inc. | url =http://www.salabclub.com.au/?page=alabradorisa | accessdate = 2007-09-12 }} </ref>

I looked around the named site and could not find the article. — UncleBubba ^{( T @ C )} 03:28, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Why did the picture I put up get changed????? I have changed it back until I get an explanation!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by RockyDoggy123 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia is not a forum for putting up images of your own pets. The previous image was more encyclopaedic and so your change was reverted. Miyagawa (talk) 22:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. After two weeks of listing, there's no agreement, with a narrow majority against the move but good arguments for it. Given the amount of discussion that has occurred on the topic both here and elsewhere, I don't think a relist would be particularly fruitful. If you disagree, please leave me a note on my talk page. --BDD (talk) 21:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• Labrador Retriever → Labrador retriever
• Golden Retriever → Golden retriever
• Chesapeake Bay Retriever → Chesapeake Bay retriever
• Curly Coated Retriever → Curly-coated retriever
• Flat-Coated Retriever → Flat-coated retriever
• Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever → Nova Scotia duck tolling retriever
• Cocker Spaniel → Cocker spaniel

– As per WP:MOSLIFE. This is a common noun, and we do not capitalize common nouns. There's something of an exception for bird-related articles, but nothing for dog breeds, which makes sense, because these should not be capitalized (obvious exceptions being the proper nouns included in two of these articles). There's a kajillion other dog articles that probably need moving, as well. Red Slash 21:53, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

This has been brought up several times before in more general discussions - I have no real thoughts either way, but it is worth considering that these are not common names as per species, but breed names. These breed names are typically capitalised as already appear on Wiki by the various Kennel Clubs around the world making the capitalised versions to be the common names regardless of the noun breakdown etc. Miyagawa (talk) 07:38, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

The situation is as Miyagama says, this has been brought up many times in the talk pages of the manual of style. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:41, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree with both Miyagawa and Enric Naval above; leave it as the capitalised breed names, as used by all the major Kennel Clubs worldwide. SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:54, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

My vote would be to leave the names capitalized as well. When there isn't any clear consensus changing it seems like a waste of time - a month from now we could be having the same discussion re: changing it back. Secondly the rest of the world including popular usage, and Kennel Club definitions use the current format - capitalized names. As someone who contributes often to one of these pages, it's really frustrating that every few months we have to keep having this discussion because some contributor has just read one best practice article or another. Stoick (talk) 20:49, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the recurring discussions would stop if the articles moved, have you thought of that? HandsomeFella (talk) 22:03, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

No, they'll just be about moving the articles in the opposite direction.--TKK ^{bark !} 23:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

How do you know? As far as I can see, the article has not been moved from that name to the current one. HandsomeFella (talk) 22:18, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

In the case of the Nova Scotia Duck Toller article, it has been renamed within the last 18 months to comply with the other examples listed. So, this is indeed just rehashing a debate that has happened before, and changing it back will just result in this debate happening again in another 6-18 months. Stoick (talk) 19:48, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Wait, do we go by WP:COMMON names or WP:OFFICIALNAMES here on Wikipedia? Red Slash 17:02, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

That sort of thing has always been the question. I'm pretty sure all previous discussions on this have ended in no consensus. Miyagawa (talk) 19:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, all the published works I've seen also use the 'Xxxx Retriever' or 'Xxxx Spaniel' format. The issues is that yes, these are 'common nouns', but they are also names, which are capitalized. If someone's name is John Doe, you don't spell it John doe, just because doe is a common noun. The phrase, as a whole, is a proper noun. --TKK ^{bark !} 21:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Comment: you can't compare a race designation with a personal name (however constructed, lacking the real name) of an individual. HandsomeFella (talk) 17:50, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Now that I reread, if an exception can be made for bird articles, could an exception be established for dog breeds? Just a possibility.--TKK ^{bark !} 19:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Particulary with dog breeds where thier uses and thier names can cause confusion if the capitalisation isn't sorted. For example, an English cocker spaniel. Is that a English Cocker Spaniel (dog breed) or a spaniel, who was born in England and is being used to retrieve Woodcock? Those are not neccessarily the same thing these days. Miyagawa (talk) 12:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• Support (with minor modification). How I would write the names of these races in the middle of a sentence? I think I would write Labrador retriever, golden retriever, Chesapeake Bay retriever, curly-coated retriever, flat-coated retriever, Nova Scotia duck-tolling retriever (NB the hyphen!), and cocker spaniel. The only capitalizations should be those of the placenames. So, support. HandsomeFella (talk) 17:46, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
  • NB 2: note that the Curly Coated Retriever article currently is un-hyphenated, not hyphenated as in the move request. I am correcting that. HandsomeFella (talk) 18:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• After doing a bit of research, the FCI, Australian National Kennel Council, New Zealand Kennel Club, American Kennel Club, United Kennel Club, Canadian Kennel Club, and The Kennel Club, as well as all the applicable books I have in my possession (Desmond Morris' Dogs, numerous Barron's publications, two books by the monks at New Skete) all use the 'Xxx Yyy' format. With all that said, although I do not support the move - that makes me oppose by technicality - I'm honestly more interested in the content of the pages then the technicalities of their names. --TKK ^{bark !} 19:23, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Britannica gives "Laborador retriever" and "golden retriever." Update: Merriam-Webster also gives "golden retriever". CMOS gives the usage example "German shorthaired pointer" (§8.128). This ngram suggests that lower case is marginally more common. Kauffner (talk) 13:37, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: interesting. I've never seen ngram before. I tried the same thing for the golden. If you take "golden retriever" – as in the middle of a sentence – vs "Golden Retriever", the difference was clearer, 3:1. "Golden retriever" was more rare, but it could be because it's seldom appears in the beginning of sentences. HandsomeFella (talk) 14:16, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Retriever is not a qualifying noun, but part of a name. It is used this way by all dog reference materials. The dog doesn't stop being a L/G Retriever if it absolutely refuses to retrieve. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:24, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
• Woof! Proper name, common usage, see http://www.akc.org/breeds/labrador_retriever/index.cfm. Jehochman ^Talk 13:04, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment: I'm not ruling out the possibility of you being right on common usage, but the same page also has the headlines "A Look Back", "Right Breed for You?", "Breed Ranking", "More Info", and "Breed Standard" (their capitalization). So they might not be authoritative on what's a proper noun. HandsomeFella (talk) 13:31, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Comment: Isn't that just proper English though? Not that I'm an expert either, but I would expect that sort of capitalization. --TKK ^{bark !} 14:30, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Comment: could be, but in wikipedia we have WP:MOSCAPS, saying that "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization". HandsomeFella (talk) 14:32, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
    • Dictionaries and style guides are the authorities on proper English, not kennel clubs. See Oxford. Kauffner (talk) 04:33, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
      • Depends on the field. The chemistry MOS uses the IUPAC guidelines, the medicine MOS uses "recognised authorities and organisations (from the medical field)", for example. These are specialized topics that have their own naming conventions, I don't see why you would want to use generalist dictionaries that can't cover the field adequately. --Enric Naval (talk) 12:13, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

US Military Working Dogs (War Dogs); Labrador Retrievers in the Vietnam War

Why is this section in the article? It doesn't say anything specific about the breed. Would it be more suitable in the Dogs in warfare article? Miyagawa (talk) 22:29, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Actually thinking further, this would be more suitable as the start of a new article specific to the uses of dogs in the US military. Miyagawa (talk) 22:33, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree this should be either more specified for the breed or shortened to house the breed specific facts.Science765 (talk) 23:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, this section appears to contradict itself. The first paragraph ends: "Classified as expendable equipment, of the approximate 4,000 US K-9s deployed to the Vietnam War, it is estimated that only about 200 US war dogs survived Vietnam to be put into service at other outposts stationed overseas." On the other hand, the third paragraph begins: "Of the over 4,000 US war dogs serving in the Vietnam War, 232 were killed in action." How can these two statements be reconciled? -- Glenn L (talk) 17:33, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, I just figured it out: The Timeline section of Dogs in warfare states that "the remaining canines were euthanized or left behind." I'll add that to the section. -- Glenn L (talk) 17:39, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Many dogs, including Labradors such as this twelve-year-old, show distinct whitening of the coat as they grow older; especially around the muzzle.

How many are you? If all you are anxious to use a healt related picture, than please find an other picture. This-> picture is not up to Wikipedia standards. White muzzles is not a health problem either. Hafspajen (talk) 22:04, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

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The picture has been there for over 6 years, I'm just curious as to what your actual objection is. Q ^{T C} 07:24, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

• Sure. The composition of the picture, the placement of visual elements. The chair, the poster in the background, the shabby mattress are all more visible than the dog, or the element supposed to discuss, the nose of the do, and the whitening of the coat. There are so many good unused pictures , not even in the commons attacher commons link, that it takes your breath away. Tried to include some with health issues. Hafspajen (talk) 13:42, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, Overlord but I agree with Hafspajen and find the background in that image a bit cluttered. To be honest, I would also be inclined to remove the image of the owner on the jet ski as it is more of the owner than the dog. @Hafspajen - a couple of the images you've included above are not pedigree Labradors (for instance, File:USMC-051028-M-0245S-011.jpg is a lab x Chesapeake; and File:Black dog.jpg is probably (I think) a cross as the nose looks too long/snipey for a Lab?). SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

• Removed them, the above mentioned ones. Hafspajen (talk) 17:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

"Silver" Labradors

File:Silver Labrador Puppy.jpg

Silver Labrador Puppy

I have removed the image of a "silver" Labrador; according to many sources these are from a Weimaraner cross. It is already covered in the colour section with links to statements from most national Kennel Clubs. There is also a lot of detail about it here and just to be on the safe side I've archived the link here. SagaciousPhil - Chat 09:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• The pet owning public is being duped into believing that animals with this dilute coat color are desirable, purebred and rare and, therefore, warrant special notoriety or a premium purchase price.

Over the past few years a limited number of breeders have advertised and sold dogs they represent to be purebred Labrador Retrievers with a dilute or gray coat color—hence the term “silver labs.” The AKC has accepted some of these “silver labs” for registration. Apparently, the rationale for this decision is that the silver coat color is a shade of chocolate. Interestingly, the original breeders of “silver” Labradors were also involved in the Weimaraner breed.

Although we cannot conclusively prove that the silver Labrador is a product of crossbreeding the Weimaraner to a Labrador, there is good evidence in scientific literature indicating that the Labrador has never been identified as carrying the dilute gene dd. The Weimaraner is the only known breed in which the universality of dd is a characteristic.

• So they say. But they look nice in a special way, no? Hope the breeders will take up this and decide in favor of it, in the furure. 09:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC) Hafspajen (talk)

Looking at the image, it does seem (to me) to have a Weimaraner look - not only the 'colour' but look at the head and the eyes ... SagaciousPhil - Chat 10:22, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

For those that think they look like a Weim take a peak at Ash (dilute) Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. You can also educate yourself here: http://www.phantomlabradors.com/controversy.html River Retrievers (talk) 12:33, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• I think, that eventually we could include this under some section and call it , lets say : Silver labrador controversy...? Or? I am not the biggest dog expert, Sagaciousphil is the canine judge, more than I am. I only know about some breeds. Hafspajen (talk) 12:54, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Reference is made on the page to Silver Labradors, so why delete a photo showing what is being referenced? It is also followed by the fact that not all registries accept them. I didn't change or add text based on my opinions or beliefs? I'm not trying to alter anyone's perception by posting the photo.

AKC does knowingly register ALL shades of chocolate as chocolate:

Response of Robert Young of AKC on 3/27/00 giving AKC official position on the issue of Silver Labs Consensus at the "Silver Lab" meeting held on July 14, 1997 1) The foundation for the AKC registry is based on parentage and not color. 2) We should register all Lab pups coming from purebred AKC registered Labs. 3) We should not register Labs as "Silver." 4) After a review of pictures, the file and history of this issue which goes back to 1987, we feel the most appropriate color for registration is Chocolate. 5) We will entertain complaints of impure breedings on an individual basis, but complaints should be based on more than color. In 1987 we conducted an inquiry into the breeding of the litters that contained the dogs that were registered as silver and one of our representatives was sent to observe several of the dogs that had been registered as silver. Color photographs of these dogs were forwarded to the office of the American Kennel Club where the staff of the AKC and the representatives of the Labrador Retriever Club of America examined them. Both parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers, however both parties felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard describes chocolate as ranging in shade from Sedge to chocolate, it was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate than as silver. --River Retrievers (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The article does already include some information of the "controversy" - see under Colour. I do have an understanding of colour genetics and recessive genes; the statements made by breed clubs and national Kennel Clubs are classified as reliable sources whereas personal breeder websites (who may have a conflict of interest as they are selling/promoting puppies they have for sale) may not be used as references. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:11, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

So then what is the reasoning behind not having the photo if again reference has been made? Why not show what they look like and let the public be the judge? Wiki is for learning and knowledge is it not? I gather than I can make a Silver Labrador page and post photos and welcome ALL sides to post their scientific knowledge and facts. --River Retrievers (talk) 13:34, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• Well, you can always try that... But, this, Phil says something about AKC awards. http://www.phantomlabradors.com/titled.html Hafspajen (talk) 13:42, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

The AKC standard says wery clearly here http://www.akc.org/breeds/labrador_retriever/breed_standard.cfm that The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification. So this silver color is not recognized, but I have to say I kind of like this color. Hafspajen (talk) 13:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

The phantom labrador site is a personal breeder site, they can include anything they want on it, so it's not a reliable source. Labradors are only recognised as black, yellow and chocolate as Hafspajen correctly points out. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, I start to realise this, here http://all-labrador-retrievers.com/silver-labrador-controversy-official-statements/ it is alt of oppinions about the matter. Clearly that it is a bit of a controversy going on. No, this is not going to work, Wikipedia has to be careful. As I say it is not thar I don't like this color, because I do, really. But the only way to put this picture in, is to make a separate section about the controversy, we have enough references to do that. I think it could be worth it, because it is clearly something going on. Gets 180 000 hits on google, for example. At least one could sort of clean up the terms, if you know what I mean. And who knows, they may be recognized somehow, after a while. Jack Russell Terrier Parson Russell Terrier and Blue Lacy , for example were also conroversial breeds. Hafspajen (talk) 13:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Scientifically speaking the silver is dilute chocolate. If you DNA them they just like the dark chocolates they express the bb (chocolate) gene. I personally don't like the silver term, I think it is flashy and misleading. I would prefer dilute, fawn, lilac, or Isabella like other breeds. But since the article only refers to them as silver I titled the photo that way. − So then the photo can be added and linked to another page regarding the controversy surrounding them? That I can doRiver Retrievers (talk) 14:39, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• If you wrote an entire article about it, yes. But you must keep in mind that biases are not something people look light on. I mean it has to be writen in a neutral way, presenting both sides arguments and not like an advertisment or sonething like that. Those articles are often deleted by the administrators, and once deleted the topic is not easy to bring up again. You need to read carefully the stuff Sagaciousphil posted on your talk page, about... everything really. There are many pits to fall into. And there is an other thingto remember, don't go on reverting edits, that is called edit warring. That is a serious offence an it did made SagaciousPhil kind of angry, discuss the problems first. Hafspajen (talk) 14:48, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the breed clubs and other national KCs - not just the AKC - as indicated in statements above, "Silver" Labradors are not recognised and can only be termed "Chocolate". The photo indicates a "Silver Labrador", which these dogs seem to be being marketed as - no doubt a search will find them promoted as 'rare' by enterprising breeders. I still object to the inclusion of this image, particularly as it clearly refers to it being a "Silver Labrador". SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:06, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I can agree with you partially but silver would fall under the ALL shades of chocolate are accepted. I only put it as being a Silver puppy because the article didn't reference the color differently. If it had spoken of dilute Labradors it would have been marked as such. I have no issues with creating an unbiased article and adding facts from both sides and referencing credible sources. River Retrievers (talk) 15:27, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

• Actually there is such an article. Labrador Retriever coat colour genetics And there is a picture of one blue-"Chocolate" silver photo added to that article. So you may go ahead and add it there. Hafspajen (talk) 15:52, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture

It has been a request to move the picture to jet ski. But it was removed. Hafspajen (talk) 23:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Change of photo for chocolate Labrador?

The photo under the 'Description' section with caption "A Chocolate Labrador" appears to be a black Labrador. Description of the photo reads "A female black Labrador Retriever named Ellis." A photo of a chocolate Lab should probably replace this one? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.149.109.97 (talk) 05:25, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

• Well, that picture was picked and uploaded from flickr. The person who uploaded the picture was not the same who took it, and made a mistake when labeling the file as black. Maybe he didn't know there are brown labs too. The dog is not black. See original picture on flicr. Hafspajen (talk) 18:30, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Further Reading

These books are general dog titles. Suggest inclusion of titles specifically about Labrador Retrievers and their history. Helen Warwick's The New Complete Labrador Retriever and Dorothy Howe's The Labrador Retriever are two that jump to mind...there are others more recent and older still with wonderful research on bloodlines, etc. I can add them if there are no objections. Steorling (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

External Links

Would benefit from links specific to the breed, particularly the "parent clubs" who set the standards (like the LRC, inc and LRC of Great Britain) and who have regional club directories available to those interested in the breed. Steorling (talk) 14:35, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

BEST REFERENCES

Why don't you like the way it was formulated:? It is a controvesy. Hafspajen (talk) 17:12, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

• Book reference.

• Here: National Labrador Retriever Breed Council.POSITION STATEMENT 21st April 2010 Silver Coat Colour :An important part of that breed standard describes the three acceptable coat colours. Black, Yellow and Liver/Chocolate are the only recognised coat colours in our breed. Any diversion from these three standard colours indicates a cross breeding combination may have occurred. Disturbing evidence has now been uncovered which suggests that some unscrupulous breeders in Australia may be considering promoting a new coat colour to unsuspecting Australian Labrador puppy buyers – Silver (or Platinum or Charcoal). This concept is not new – for some years in the USA and more recently in New Zealand so called Silver Labradors have been pedalled by “backyard/designer dog” breeders as being rare or unique. Not surprisingly this advertised rarity comes at a significant price both financially to the buyer and in health concerns to the individual dogs concerned. The sad fact is that these Silver Labradors are cross bred dogs – the result of crossing a Labrador Retriever with a Weimaraner. Genetically these crossbred designer Labradors are at high risk of inherited structural and health defects. Neurological disorders such as epilepsy are widespread amongst “Silver” Labradors due to the inbreeding that is required to maintain the unnatural silver coat colour. These dogs also suffer debilitating skin and thyroid problems. It has also become evident that significant numbers do have problems with hip and elbow dysplasia due to generations of breeding from “untested” breeding stock. The NLRBC has issued a Silver Coat “high alert” to all State based member clubs around Australia. If you require more information or you wish to report the activities of a suspected Silver Labrador breeder please contact the Labrador Retriever Club in your home state.

These are the major kennel clubbs, and none allows silver.

They are NOT recognized.

• FCI doesn't allow silver
• AKC - doesn't allow silver.
• ANKC - doesn't allow silver
• CKC - [www.ckc.ca/en/Choosing-a-Dog/Choosing-a-Breed/All-Dogs doesn't allow silver]
• KC (UK) NOT recognized.
• NZKC doesn't allow silver

• UKC doesn't allow silver

UNITED KENNEL CLUB CITE: Color may be solid black, any solid shade of yellow from red to pale cream, or any solid shade of chocolate. Yellow dogs may have variations in shading on the ears, back and underside of the dog. A small white spot on the chest is permissible but not preferred. White hairs from aging or scarring should not be penalized. Disqualifications: Any color or combination of colors other than described above; albinism.

Those are the major kennel clubs. You still go on tagging the article and don't discuss.

Hafspajen (talk) 17:30, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Fully referenced section The dilute gene in the Labrador Retriever

^{The American Kennel Club (AKC) (and all other reputable kennel clubs around the world) recognizes three coat colors in the Labrador: black, yellow and chocolate. These colors are inherited based on genes at two loci: B and E. In recent years, other colors have become more prominent in the breed. Breeders refer to these colors as ‘silver’, ‘charcoal’ and ‘champagne’. In order to obtain these new colors, a recessive D locus dilution factor (dd) must be introduced into the population. According to literature, the dilution factor was not originally a part of the Labrador Retriever breed, and therefore, controversy surrounds the topic.}

^{Information known about the dilution factor’s lack of presence in the Labrador suggests that it was introduced into the breed in the United States, at some point in time, probably in the late 1940s, early 1950s, by crossbreeding. Research has shown that some dogs with coat color dilution are prone to hair loss and reoccurring skin problems. These conditions should be selected against by eliminating dilution factors within the Labrador population. The Labrador Retriever breed should be consistent with its breed standard, and dilute colored dogs incorrectly represent the purebred breed.}

^{The Labrador Retriever breed, as it was developed and registered in the United Kingdom, never (until 2006) carried the dilution factor. A survey in the United Kingdom, Europe, Canada and the United States shows that no reputable Labrador breeder has ever had a puppy carrying the dilution factor, so it is hard to explain the direct cause of a mutation in the breed. There is no other explanation than that crossbreeding occurred with a breed carrying dilution, probably the Weimaraner, and they passed the d allele down to offspring. There are many breeders in the United States who specialize in breeding diluted "Labradors". Diluted dogs typically have a metallic-looking sheen to the hair. A typical Labrador with a black phenotype can have the genotype: BBEE, BBEe, BbEE or BbEe. A Labrador with a chocolate phenotype will have either the bbEE or the bbEe genotype. A dog displaying a yellow coat must have the homozygous recessive genotype at the E locus, and therefore can be BBee, Bbee or bbee. It is possible for these genotypes to be diluted if the dog carries two copies of the recessive dilute gene, dd. Dogs that carry at least one D will not have a diluted coat. If a dog carries the Dd genotype at the D locus, one copy of the dilute gene is present. If bred to a bitch carrying a dilute gene (Dd or dd), diluted offspring could be produced.}

Hafspajen (talk) 17:32, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Removal of references

The now broken references - and the information they supported - should not have been removed per WP:PRESERVE. It would have been better to mark them as broken links. In fact all or most appear to be archived at the Wayback Machine. Hafspajen (talk) 16:56, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

• Presence of a color dilution gene can cause chocolate dogs to appear silver, black to appear charcoal, and yellow to appear campaign colored. The purity of those bloodlines is disputed. Some major kennel clubs around the world allow dilute color Labradors to be registered as their base color. The Kennel Club (England) requires that they be registered as "Non-recognised."

This is rather a changed version. The controvesy is a controversy. Hafspajen (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

That source, http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/silverlabs.html, appear to be polemic: it's a breeder expressing their opinion that their Labs are better than somebody else's. I recommend that you find the citation from a more reliable source. The summary of facts I added about the genetics is agreed upon by all: there's a gene, and this is how it is expressed, like saying the sky is blue. Jehochman ^Talk 17:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

That gene is not comming through mutation, though. And it is not correct that major kennel clubs around the world allow dilute color, with the exception of England. We can't write that. Hafspajen (talk) 17:08, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to explain the controversy citing the best references we can find. We should shed light on this issue. Suggest we work together to write something much better than what was there originally. The page you want is this one: http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_contents.php?page=Silver+Labradors Jehochman ^Talk 17:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

WILL YOU please look at the references? Under. Hafspajen (talk) 17:45, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Appearance

The sentence stuck in about how good labs are with children needs attention. While this is true and many owners refer to their labs as the "best babysitters in the world", it doesn't belong in "Appearance" but "Temperament" and needs a citation.

I also have an issue with the term "interwoven" to describe why Labrador coats are waterproof. The term implies the coat is "woven" or wool like, which is incorrect particularly when the only other description of the coat is "Labrador hair is usually short and straight". One of the defining characteristics of a Lab is the double coat as described in the standard. The shorter "fluffy" part traps air near the body while the straighter, longer guard hairs repel water like oilskin. This special double layer "dry suit" arrangement is not reflected in the term "interwoven." Suggest changing it to "double coat" with citation or explanation of the coats appearance from the breed standard. Steorling (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

The terms English and American to describe the two varieties of Labrador are names only used in the U.S.A. Whilst all other countries where Labradors are common use different terms. The implication is that Labradors bred from English lines are show dogs and ones bred from American lines are field dogs which is untrue as is the implication that English Labradors meet the characteristics described. In fact all Labrador lines originate in England and current English lines have the same variety of appearance as American lines. In the UK the terms used are always 'Show' and 'Working'. Working lines tend to have maintained the looks of the original breed and are lighter framed and more athletic whilst increasingly Show lines are extremely heavy set with looks not dissimilar to Rottweilers or breeds featuring heavy folds of skin and hanging jowls. There is some controversy as many Show dogs have physical qualities that would prevent them from being practical as working dogs yet are considered by some to be the standard by which a 'working' breed is judged. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.14.90.92 (talk) 14:23, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

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Origin of breed

This is confusing - the core origin dogs seem to be the St Johns water dog, but the first true Labradors were bred in England - is it not more correct to therefore state that despite the name, the breed origin is England? In addition, the article implies that breeding that led to the modern Labrador took place in the US - is this correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.12.0 (talk) 22:08, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

The origin is the St. John's Dog, the stabilization and first registration (studbook) of the breed was in GR. The "implication" you note is lost on me as well, since there is mention of both the British and American studbooks/clubs and individuals on both sides of the Atlantic responsible for the development of the breed. Steorling (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

The article does mention St. John's Dog, but the article is about the Labrador. Are those two the same? It doesn't look like that. The St. John's Dog is called the foundation breed. I'm no expert in this but to me that indicates the Labrador might contain more than just the St. John's Dog. According to the article the Labrador was developed by an Earl of Malmesbury and as I understand they were in Great Britain. The St. John's Dog had already been brought there (whatever part it had in it). I would not call that a Canadian dog. One question: What is the GR that Steorling is referring to? 2.110.44.130 (talk) 18:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Surely, the St John's is a Canadian breed but the Labrador is English. Whilst the Labrador was created from the St Johns, these are the locations where the breeds were first bred and recognised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.14.90.92 (talk) 13:58, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Is this correct? As I know these breeds are smaller version of Newfoundland and they were be precedecessor of Golden by English after they moved to UK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.78.236.53 (talk) 07:40, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2016

|ckcgroup = Group 1 – Sporting |ckcstd = http://www.ckc.ca/en/Default.aspx?tabid=99&BreedCode=RTL |ckcgroup = Group 1 – Sporting |ckcstd = http://www.ckc.ca/en/Files/Breed-Standards/Breed-Standards/Group-1-Sporting/RTL-Retriever-Labrador

220.78.236.53 (talk) 22:41, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

@220.78.236.53: Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —Skyllfully ^(talk | _contribs) 16:10, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Moved from top of the page

I did not know where else to put this comment because there was not an option to edit the introduction. They list as labrador retrievers as the most popular dog breed. This is still correct according to the AKC, who is the original source, but that article is from 2012. Here is this years information http://www.akc.org/news/the-most-popular-dog-breeds-in-america/ Christina.mooney (talk contribs) 20:01, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  10:09, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Labradors

i really think this is a very good research page nut i think it should also have in there things about agility and how good these dogs are at agility and the fact that they can jump very nicely and also i did not see anywhere about there being two different types of labs besides their color their are American labs and English labs American have a very athletic build and English labs are floppy. i might have them mixed up though but your article is very good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stallion gal (talk • contribs) 15:08, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

British English

Just to reconfirm that this article uses British English (colour, not color). Makes sense to me as Labrador is in Canada, and Canadians use British English. If you wish to discuss or debate the matter, this is the place for that. wbm1058 (talk) 17:42, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, should be BrEng. The IP is the IP hopping/block evading dog article fiddler - there has also been socking involved previously. This is one of his favourite target breeds. SagaciousPhil - Chat 18:08, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I just reverted them AGAIN somewhere else. Gah. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 21:08, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2016

Under "US Military Working Dogs" second paragraph:

Please change "Combat Tracker Teams consisted of one Labrador and four men: the handler, an observer, a security man, and the team leader."

to — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cptrfp (talk • contribs) 03:33, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

"Combat Tracker Teams in Vietnam consisted of one Labrador retriever and five men, a dog handler and his cover man, a visual tracker and his cover man, and a team leader."

Captain R. F. Pascucci, formerly CTT Team Leader, 62nd Infantry Platoon (Combat Tracker), 1st Cavalry Division, 1969. Reference http://www.combattrackerteam.org/

Cptrfp (talk) 03:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Not done for now:  Question: I am not hesitant to make the changes could you specifically point out which page on that site says so so that I can site that page. There are over 20 pages there. Just ping me back I'll help you! Good luck and happy editing! VarunFEB2003 08:01, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

• The original source used - Burnam, 2008, p. 278 - states four men; in an attempt to address the discrepancy I have updated the article to read four or five men and added the combattrackerteam.org URL mission statement which states a team of five. SagaciousPhil - Chat 09:34, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

References