Talk:Kidron Valley

Vote for Deletion

This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 19:58, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Akeldama Tombs

a) Do they belong here? Are they at least partially in the Kidron V., as opposed to being in the Hinnom V.? @Zero0000: maybe you have a map?

b) Smb. copied here the text from the IAA website and attributed it to Hirschfeld, w/o mentioning the page. This MUST be checked and also rewritten (it sounds like Indiana Jones literature). I added today a one-line intro with some facts. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 07:52, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

@Arminden: The place called Akeldama (aka Field of Blood) is located in the Valley of Hinnom (aka Wadi er Rababi) a few hundred meters before it joins the Kidron Valley. The problem in answering your question is that I don't know exactly where the tombs found in 1989 are. Since there are tombs all around there and the Kidron Valley is so close, I don't see a reason to doubt the IAA's description of the location. Also Yizhar Hirschfeld is a reliable source but I don't have his book. Zero^talk 08:38, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Zero, good to hear from you. I know all that, and that's exactly my problem: why would they use the name Akeldama for a site several hundred metres away (confluence). I don't have a map with the location of the tombs, that's the issue here. Hirschfeld is actually quoted by another editor, who doesn't indicate the page, and he/she just copied-and-pasted a long text identical to the (old, anonymous, messy and truncated) IAA site presentation, so I doubt it really being Hirschfeld's words. Cheers,

The different segments have different names, very different significance

Most data so far concentrates on the upper segment near Jerusalem & Silwan. The lower course (Wadi an-Nar) with Mar Saba etc. is a very different beast altogether. The only "connecting" story I've ever heard was about 70 CE, when Jewish survivors of the Roman siege tried to reach the Kidron Valley and escape towards the Dead Sea, only to be caught. One Dead Sea Scrolls theory even suggests the Qumran scrolls were deposited in the caves by others who were more lucky or who left before the siege.

We should consider splitting the article into separate articles, to reflect this fact. The upper and lower course share very little, the upper part has huge significance with loads of material; the lower part less so. If we continue structuring the article only internally, we will

• a) have a lot about the upper course and less about the lower one, and
• b) always have to subdivide every topic (history, archaeology, modern development, even the all-pervasive conflict) into "upper course" and "lower course" subchapters and sub-subchapters...

What about an umbrella article, with links to at least two separate articles? Even the upper Kidron has significant sub-segments such as the Wadi Joz neighbourhood, the Valley of Jehoshaphat between Temple Mount and Mount of Olives, and the portion between Silwan and the City of David including the King's Garden area at the confluence with the Hinnom V. (possibly also here: Akeldama Tombs, if not too far up Hinnom V.?). Cheers, Arminden (talk) 08:32, 25 September 2018 (UTC)