Talk:Kerma

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What does the 25th Dynasty of Egypt (700s-600s BC), have to do with the Kingdom of Kerma (ends c.1000 BC)? Yes they were from Nubia, but they can't have been from the by-then-abandoned Kerma. Furius (talk) 03:42, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

age

Need to fix the age. According to Geoff Emberling, by 2000 BCE "the city of Kerma itself was a large urban center built around an imposing mud-brick temple complex known as the Western Deffufa." This would just replace the 9000 year old figure, which was confusing. Uses the same source. Dougweller (talk) 13:21, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Kerma as the kings of Napatan Kush cemetery?

"After the sacking of Kerma, the cemetery was used to host the kings of Napatan Kush from Upper (Southern) Nubia." I doubt it's correct. Can anybody confirm that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Titus Atomicus (talk • contribs) 16:05, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

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In the second paragraph under "Bioarchaeology", there seems to be a personal argument on the topic of human sacrifice (use of the first-person pronoun, and more.) Not sure how to edit: should this paragraph just be deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:C05D:2B90:B529:E2A4:5837:EC3C (talk) 02:00, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 16 June 2024

Kerma → Kerma (city) – proposal at Talk:Kerma kingdom#Requested move 9 June 2024 to move Kerma culture to Kerma with this page specifying the city/archaeological site Alexanderkowal (talk) 22:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 20:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support as per discussion there. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 09:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Babylon/Babylonia precedent. I think there is greater clarity and educational value in the current setup. Srnec (talk) 20:06, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

  Surely having Kerma (city), with a clarification, provides greater clarity? Alexanderkowal (talk) 20:12, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

  Having Kerma culture, with a clarification, provides greater clarity, since the name is derivative of that of the village and archaeological site. Calling the culture or kingdom Kerma is somewhat like calling the US government Washington. Nothing wrong with it, but not necessarily indicative of how to title encyclopedia articles. Srnec (talk) 01:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

  Lots of kingdoms had a central city with power radiating from it, like Diarra, Sosso, Aksum etc. I think the Kerma(city) article is more of a sub article to the Kerma culture one, so it makes sense for that to take prominence Alexanderkowal (talk) 08:59, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

• Comment I haven't seen much evidence yet in both discussions that would substantiate the proposed moves. Can you kindly present us a handful of sources that use plain "Kerma" in the title and which do not just discuss the site, but have the full extent of the Kerma culture as topic? –Austronesier (talk) 15:48, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

  Good idea, thank you. Some include surrounding sites under the term Kerma, I left out the more ambiguous ones:

  • [1]: Kerma (2011-2012)
  • [2]:Kerma: The Rise of an African Civilization (1976)
  • [3]: The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Nubia: C8 The pre-Kerma culture and the beginning of the Kerma kingdom
  • [4]: Settlement and cemeteries of the Mesolithic and Early Neolithic at el-Barga (Kerma region)
  • [5]: ON THE PERIPHERY OF KERMA - THE HANDESSI HORIZON IN WADI HARIQ, NORTHWESTERN SUDAN
  • [6]: Weapons, Ideology and Identity at Kerma (Upper Nubia, 2500–1500 bc)
  • [7]: The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Nubia: C11 The cities of Kerma and Pnubs-Dokki Gel
  • [8]: SHEEPSKIN FROM ANCIENT KERMA, NORTHERN SUDAN
  • [9]: Marginal Communities and Cooperative Strategies in the Kerma Pastoral State
  • [10]: Behavioral reconstruction of the Kerma era Nubians
  • [11]: Skin, hair and cloth remains from the ancient kerma civilization of Northern Sudan

  Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:37, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

  That's a mixed bag. The first two employ "Kerma" for the site; the first uses "Kerma civilization" for the full topic, the second uses "Kerma culture". So they actually support the (old) status quo; "Kerma" for the site, "Kerma culture" for the civilization as a whole. I will have a look at the rest later. –Austronesier (talk) 18:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah some of them aren't great examples, but a couple use Kerma alone to refer to the Kerma site as well as neighbouring sites Alexanderkowal (talk) 18:37, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose: The disambiguation isn't needed given that the previous discussion to move Kerma Kingdom to Kerma was rejected; it's not disambiguating anything on Wikipedia. Additionally, sources regularly use Kerma for the city and other terms for the culture, so it seems reasonable. Mrfoogles (talk) 23:17, 9 July 2024 (UTC)