Talk:Kentucky/Archive 6

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Rosemary Clooney

Under music in Kentucky you failed to list probably the most famous singer from the state. Her name is Rosemary Clooney from maysville,KY. 41056. thanks , V.J.Gall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vjgall (talk • contribs) 22:02, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Kentucky is a southern state

This should not even be a discussion topic---Geographically Kentucky is and has always been a south eastern state. The Ohio River is the division line between Northern and Southern states. Lousiville, as much as they would love to be a part of Indiana is still the largest and front door city to Kentucky. Even though our two largest events in Kentucky, the Derby and the Ky State Fair are as much centered on Indiana as they are Kentucky, they are still in the Bluegrass state. The Cinci airport in Northern Kentucky, with all their welcome to Ohio stuff--Is still in Kentucky.

I do not see how Ohio and Indiana are considered mid-west. Missouri is the gateway to the midwest? Louisville, Kentucky was known as the gateway to the south until Jerry Abrasom thought it was tacky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.187.174.15 (talk) 06:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

This is long resolved as far as the article goes. Kentucky is a Southern state, although we simply acknowledge that some consider it Midwestern. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 02:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, the motto on the Covington, KY Police Dept.'s patch also states "Gateway to the South"; I'm pretty sure that is also the City's as well. [[1]] [[2]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 18:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Anyone that doesn't know that Kentucky is a Southern State is either an idiot when it comes to geography, climate, and history or is well, just an idiot. This should not even be an issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.61.135.218 (talk) 23:19, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Kentucky is in the Southeast!

Seriously, this article should be locked, at least the part about where Kentucky is located. The evidence of Kentucky being southern in several ways in overwhelming. It is southern geographically, culturally, and climatically; there should be no dispute, period. Seriously, this should be locked as it is getting ridiculous. [[3]] [[4]] [[5]] -seriously, the sources are plethora! I re-iterate the argument posted below by an unsigned contributor as I believe that it brings forth several valid points: "Geographically, Kentucky is a Southern State, just as Virginia is. Actually, Virginia is farther north than Kentucky.

I think people confuse Kentucky's civil war status with that of her geography--It was a border state during the war because it was neutral-divided. The border status was not given to Kentucky until the war as to define it. A perfect example was that Union soldiers from Kentucky objected strongly to be called Yankees--they considered themselves "Southern Unionist" as many diaries and their own written words note.

Our governor attends the Southern Governors Confederence, he does not attend the Midwest one. Kentucky is in Southern Living magazine, not Midwest Living version. UK is in the SEC and actually started the confederence. I could go on and on...The great Southern Exposition was held in Louisville in the late 1800s. There is a monument in Louisville near the Galthouse that states-First skyscrapper in the South. So, I am not impressed when people say Kentucky is a Midwest state. Perhaps those who live in Cincinatti or this new Kentuckiana (which is crap and has ruined Louisville identity) have helped bring this Midwest thing to light for Kentucky. The personality of most Kentuckians reflect that of the south--The accent, food connections of fried chicken, gravy and biscuits, etc..etc.., songs, music, personalities, landmarks-"Niagra of the South" waterfall, The Derby with Burgoo ...The cook for Confederate John Hunt Morgan invented the dish and and Mint Julieps.

I guess to put it plan and simple--Take someone from Kentucky, who is born and has thgeir roots here and stand them against someone from Tennessee and a person from Michigan and let them all talk and see who the Kentckian fits in better with. I can tell you flat out, it would be Tennessee. I know it would be for me."

I was born and raised in Kentucky and couldn't agree more. Even people in Northern Kentucky acknowledge that Kentucky is a Southern State. Seriously, put this issue to bed already. I honestly think that this subject keeps getting changed to Northern because some people get a kick out of vandalizing the article and watching the Kentuckians get all worked up. Seriously, lock it already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 06:41, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The article already said that Kentucky is a Southern state. Geographically, though, it is characterized as being in the East-Central U.S. because that's where it is. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 05:52, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

-Just noticed that my SOURCED edit was undone and reverted to the UNSOURCED version stating Kentucky is an East Central State. I undid it. I don't undo sourced edits and don't appreciate when others do it to mine, especially to an unsourced opinion. The Federal Government and Encyclopedia Brittanica agree with me (likely as well as MANY Kentuckians) that KENTUCKY IS A SOUTHERN STATE. Unless you can get a higher source I will continue to revert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 07:18, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Again, Kentucky is a Southern state and the article says that. Its geographical position has nothing to do with that. Those are separate concepts. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:37, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I do have to ask, why is Virginia, a State which is no further geographically south and actually even extends more into the north than Kentucky but it is listed as a Southern State in it's Wiki article; and, Colorado which is no further South than Kentucky (actually, the boot-heel of KY extends it further into the south) is said to be part of the Southwestern United States. It sure seems a little inconsistent to me. I thought that the reference from the Encyclopedia Britannica that I cited was for the geographic U.S.A.; do you have a reference of equal or greater credibility? Also, why would the Federal Government, as in the reference that I cited from USDA Forest Service [[6]] consistently include Kentucky in the South. And why would the Census include Kentucky in the South if it weren't geographically in the south [[7]]? I hate to sound confrontational, but considering that you cite no references for your edit, and arbitrarily wipe out mine (Federal Government, Encyclopedic, and other credible references), I can't help but to ask that you to provide references of equal or greater credibility. I was born in Kentucky, grew up in Kentucky, and now just live across the border; have you even been to Kentucky? I am sure that I am not the only person that feels this way (see all the previous discussion) and think that you are being a bit unreasonable. I undid your undo of my contribution because I wanted to bring your attention to this post; just so you know, I do not intend to get into an edit war with you. And believe it or not, I am for the most part a well-intended and reasonable person; I really don't want to make an enemy of you. I would like to see a consensus on this and then have it locked once and for all. Can we do a consensus or whatever Wikipedia does to amicably resolve disagreements (and that is all it is, please don't take it personal). Gotta go now. Later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 00:31, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I decided not to undo your edit of my contribution as that would seem a bit confrontational and I'm not aiming for that with you. Please consider what I have mentioned and respond so I know what you're thinking; maybe you can even enlighten me (I am open to learn new things). Later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 00:35, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I was curious, so I looked up the most northern and most southern points in the Contiguous United States [[8]] to see what their coordinates were to find out just where Kentucky lies geographically. Well, the most southern point is Ballast Key, Florida located at 24°31′15″N 81°57′49″W / 24.52083°N 81.96361°W / 24.52083; -81.96361 [[9]] and then I looked up Northwest Angle/Angle Township in Lake of the Woods, Minnesota which is located at 49.384358°N 95.153314°W. So, just to keep the math easy, I took the northernmost value of 49 and the southernmost value of 24 (kept it round to keep the math REAL easy), subtracted 24 from 49, came up with the 25, divided that in half and came up with 12.5, added 12.5 to the southernmost U.S. (48 Contiguous) latitude and came up with 36.5; so, 36.5 degrees N should be roughly geographically the center between north and south; I then compared that 36.5 to what is stated to be Kentucky’s northern and southern latitude, 36°30′ N to 39°09′ N, and well I guess I stand corrected because that only places the southernmost parts of Kentucky just south of center but the majority of the Commonwealth is north of the 36.5 latitude- so that pretty much unarguably makes it "Central"- if not, and I hate to say it, god I hate to say it, Northern. So, I beg your pardon, stand corrected, and admit my error because the numbers don't lie. So, best regards to you. Now to tell people in Virginia that they are Nu-Nu-Nu-Northern, eek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 03:38, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm wondering for accuracy and consistency's sake if the Wikipedia articles for Virginia and Colorado -and I think there was another State that is geographically "North/Central", or even more northern than Kentucky- should be corrected to reflect the fact that they are not Southern but rather Northern or North Central States (geographically). Considering in-particular that Virginia extends further North than Kentucky (even Cincinnati, freakin' OHIO is further south geographically than Winchester, Virginia and Fulton, Kentucky is further south than ANY point anywhere in Virginia) it would only be consistent and accurate to change Virginia's and like State's Wikipedia articles to reflect the fact that they are Central States (geographically). Although, I hesitate to edit those articles, particularly regarding Virginia, because I'm thinking that this logic would fly like a lead balloon with Virginian editors. Maybe a more established and decorated editor such as Stevie is the man! would be willing to take on this challenge? The article for Virginia is particularly relevant to the Kentucky article because Virginia is a bordering State and Kentucky was at one time part of Virginia. I'm not being sarcastic either, I just think articles in Wikipedia should be consistent in order to be considered accurate and encyclopedic. Are you up to the challenge? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I decided to muster up some courage to do some "bold editing" on the Virginia article in-order to make these two (related) State's opening lines consistent about their geographic location being "East Central" (except I was going to include "coastal" for Virginia) but decided not to when I saw the warning as quoted below. Are there any established editors who are bold enough and care to take on this challenge to make the edit thus making things consistent within Wikipedia? " !----Caution if editing first sentence describing geographic/cultural identity. Discuss changes first.---- " it had < before the exclamation mark and > after the last hyphen. I cut and pasted the warning but apparently those characters hide the message in the discussion page until you go to the "edit this page" area. I did add it to Kentucky's "edit this page" area as it seems like a good thing since there apparently has been a previous consensus in prior discussion regarding the language on these topics for Kentucky. Anyway, I really don't mean to babble on and on about this geographic location thing but it just seems to me that it is important to encyclopedic integrity for things to be uniform and consistent between related articles and topics if Wikipedia is to be taken even somewhat seriously.

I want to add that Kentucky also was[[10]], if not still is [[11]], a cotton growing state. Albeit primarily, if not exclusively, being grown in any marketable amount only in the southwest part of Kentucky, still the fact is that Kentucky grew more cotton than Virginia yet no one ever seems to call Virginia's being Southern into question, at least not nearly as much as Kentucky. Just one more irritating fact. I honestly don't understand why there is ever any question or debate as to whether or not Kentucky is a Southern State. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.42.16 (talk) 06:16, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Agree. I always wondered why people do not question the "southerness" of Virginia but can seem to figure out that Kentucky is a Southern State- you are also correct that KY used to be part of Virgina. People are just stupid. You mention Cincinnati being further south than parts of Virginia, I had to check on that because it seemed off but I checked and am surprised that you are correct about that, I never would have figured Cincinnati, Ohio or Covington, Kentucky as being more southern than parts of Virgina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.61.135.218 (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Independance movement?

There should be something in here about the independance movement. I read an article in the paper the other day about the United Kentucky Liberation Front and their virus attacks and leaking of goverment information. After doing more research there is another more legal group trying for independance that posted something on google know [here] 74.138.50.226 (talk) 22:59, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

A Google Knol hardly qualifies as a reliable source, especially on something like this. At best, I'd suggest creating an article on the United Kentucky Liberation Front and seeing if it survives WP:AFD. I'd almost bet it won't. I live in Kentucky and had never heard of this until I saw it on Wikipedia. As far as I know, no major politician or publication is taking it seriously. Acdixon ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 13:27, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

"Dark and Bloody Ground" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Dark and Bloody Ground. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 May 1#Dark and Bloody Ground until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm (talk) 00:21, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

It's maybe not worth a redirect, though the principal reason supporting "delete" was that the phrase wasn't mentioned in the target article. It's a pretty well known piece of folklore, why isn't it? I think it is larger than Kentucky; it refers also to parts of Ohio and W. Virginia, the core of the area over which the Beaver Wars were fought. But I don't think the term came into existence until its use in early 19th century literature. I don't know whether it refers to those wars, or the Cherokee-American wars or Northwest Indian War. A fertile forested heartland has historically been a place of conflict, and so the term stuck. I'm not sure I want to do the dirty work of documenting it. Sbalfour (talk) 18:33, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Etymology

I’ve had a change to etymology reverted, so let’s talk it over. The counties (county) of western Virginia didn’t just “become known” as Kentucky by some kind of osmosis. Kentucky County was named by the Virginia General Assembly in Dec. 1776 when it was split from Fincastle County, and they didn’t invent the name. I can find no historical use of the name prior to Boone’s 1769 expedition thru the Cumberland gap. Only Walker, Gist and Finley, and Boone, could have been exposed to early Indian names. Kentucky was quite sparsely populated by Indians after 1680; it’s likely that the place name didn’t exist for decades after.

There was not a whiteman to be had in Kentucky as late as March 1775 when the Harrod’s Town militia returned from Dunmore’s War. So the Indian placename must’ve popped up quickly. Beckner suggests it may have been assigned to the Shawnee settlement Eskippakithiki on the River we now call Kentucky. It was the British who called the River that name; we’re less sure about what the Indians called Kentucky. The Indians had a more holistic view of the world, and the name Kentucky referred to the land, river valley, watershed, or just fertile land thereabouts. I don’t like some of the sources cited; they seem to be popular rather than scholarly, like someone searched the web and viola! I didn’t find an etymology in Clark’s monumental tome, “The Kentucky” about the river, and I don’t have the older works. I do see references like “the territory known as cantucke”, and other varied spellings. If there was a Kentucke territory analogous to Ohio country to the north, it was very short-lived.

I just think the wording of etymology is wishy-washy. Sbalfour (talk) 14:29, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

This wikipedia page is incorrect

Kentucky did not “remain neutral “ during the civil war . Kentucky not only never joined the south , but officially declared for the Union September 7th 1861 ,,, “nuetrality “ only lasted four months ,, and ended when confederate troops broke nuetrality by pushing into Kentucky ,, the officials who had been elected in Frankfort requested aid from the rest of the Union ,, and on September 7th officially declared to remain as part of the United States of America. They raised the Flag of the US over the capital building. Please correct your false neutrality statement,,

My comment is to fix an error that the wiki page has about KY ,, which feeds the false idea of Kentucky being neutral during the civil war 76.89.19.147 (talk) 22:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

It is not for you or I to determine whether Kentucky was neutral - it is what reliable sources say. I note that the statement is unsourced, and have tagged it. If you have a reliable source that says otherwise, please be bold: edit the statement, and cite the source. But if you do not have such a source, you might want to defer until you can contribute accurate and reliably sourced material to an otherwise scholarly article. Sbalfour (talk) 18:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)