Talk:Julien de Lallande Poydras

correct

I would like to correct the following information: Julien Poydras was born on April 3, 1746 in Rézé (not far from Natantes) in France.

Hope it will be useful for your paper.

It would be kind of neat if someone would write about the fund that Julien left to establish an annually disbursed dowry available to all those who marry in West Baton Rouge Parish. This money still exists today. The was reported nationally in an NPR broadcast from 2004/2005 produced by local writer Ed Cullen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.80.65.252 (talk) 15:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

odettepoitras@hotmail.com

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Saint-Domingue vs. "Santo Domingo"

I vowed off of doing major edits on Wikipedia a long time ago, due to illogical reverts. Now, I try to limit myself to suggestions on the Talk Pages. However, in this case, I went ahead and made the change. Unless I am wrong, I believe that the merchant ship that took Poydras to the West Indies took him to the French colony of Saint-Domingue (pronounced "SANT do-MONG," rather than to the Spanish colonial town of Santo Domingo in the eastern part of the island. The island itself has been variously called Hispaniola, San Domingo, and even Santo Domingo like the town of that name. But the French colony, which occupies the western third of the island, is Saint-Domingue. I know that over the past few hundred years unknowledgeable English speakers have incorrectly referred to the French colony by the spanish name of Santo Domingo. I don't know why they do this. It drives me to distraction as the practice has become almost institutionalized. But there is a nice Wikipedia article about Saint-Domingue, and my correction will link readers of this article to the French colony, and not to the Spanish colony. PGNormand (talk) 21:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Editors who refer to French Saint-Domingue and 19th-century independent Haiti as "Santo Domingo" are reflecting English usage of the time. Some of the "Santo Domingo" references in Wikipedia are probably left over from public-domain encyclopedias from the early 1900s. I agree that Wikipedians should always use "Saint-Domingue" when referring to the French colony (unless 'Santo Domingo' occurs in direct quotes, in which case a wlink should prob. redirect to Saint-Domingue).

A brief history: Santo Domingo (since 1844 the capital of the Dominican Republic) was the oldest and largest port on the Caribbean island of Hispaniola. France claimed the western coast of the island and named it "Saint-Domingue," but the English term remained "Santo Domingo" without regard for which colonial power claimed what. After Haiti gained its independence, the name "Santo Domingo" persisted for political reasons until the U.S. abolished slavery. Even then, "Santo Domingo" persisted in historical writing as the name for both the French and Spanish colonies on Hispaniola. This lazy ambiguity persisted until well into the 20th century, when U.S. historians finally paid serious attention to the history of colonies beyond the Thirteen.

It's worth saying a little more about the initial resistance in the United States and United Kingdom to the name "Haiti." (It was the indigenous Taíno name of the island. The first independence movement in the Spanish colony founded the short-lived Republic of Spanish Haiti, succeeded in 1844 by the Dominican Republic.) The French colony, Saint-Domingue, was a particularly brutal slave regime that was also the world's leading producer of sugar and thus the most valuable French colonial possession. In 1804, after a sustained slave rebellion and successful resistance to a French attempt at reconquest, the colony declared its independence as Haiti, and in 1806 it became a republic.

The second oldest republic in the Americas was disappointed in its hope of an alliance with the first, the United States. As a black-ruled government founded by former slaves, Haiti's very existence was a rebuke to the doctrines that justified enslavement on the basis of color. (Pres. John Adams did authorize aid to Haitian rebels, due largely to U.S. hostility toward France at the time. His successor, Jefferson, a Francophile and slaveholder, revoked the aid and ended relations.) Many French slaveholders fled Haiti and sought refuge in the slave state of Louisiana, where they were welcomed as innocent, persecuted refugees. Their influence further encouraged the U.S. to ignore Haiti while embracing the independence of other former colonies.

Until the Civil War, calling the country "Haiti" (which very few Americans did) implied radical support for the abolition of slavery. The press, government, and most of the public kept referring to "Santo Domingo," a rhetorical choice that implicitly denied recognition of Haiti as a legitimate nation-state. This had practical consequences. Not only did the U.S. refrain from diplomatic relations and trade with Haiti; it contradicted its own Monroe Doctrine by standing aside when France used military force to extort "indemnity" payments from Haiti that crippled the country's economic development until 1947. (I'll refrain from commenting on how real the independence of Haiti has been under modern U.S. aid-pipeline diplomacy, punctuated by direct military control.)

The United States did not recognize Haitian independence until 1863, during the Civil War. That is when the name "Haiti" finally prevailed in English — though, as mentioned, "Santo Domingo" persisted in superficial historical writing about the colonial period. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 17:39, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

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