Talk:Joseph V Augustine Hindi

Year of death

Somebody has changed the year of death from 1828 to 1827, referencing a paper by Joseph Habbi. The change produced a conflict, because the sentence "... was the patriarchal administrator ... from 1781 to 1828 [!] ..." persisted. Unfortunately the particular paper does not seem to be online, because of which it is hard to determine, what Mr. Habbi actually wrote. The other sources linked in the article ([1], [2], [3]) agree that the YOD was 1828. A lot of printed sources give the same date ([4] [5]). It must be admitted though, that sometimes YOD is given as 1827 [6] or even 1826. [7]. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 23:48, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment here above. When we check the references we shall give a priority to them: GCatholic and Catholic Hierarchy are tertiary sources, and they usually are based on other sources which they don't check. Probably the Congregation of Propaganda Fide mentioned in a own document for the fist time the death of A.H. in 1828 (exactly on 10 March 28), so 1828 was taken as presumed YOD: this faulty information is already present in the Tfinkdji (Annuaire Pontifical Catholique, 1914), which is not a detailed study on the subject but only a general review. The Murre is a good article, but it is focused on the epithaphes in Rabban Hormidz monastery and for the other dates it simply lists third hand dates. The Wilmshurst is here ambiguous, at page 198 states YOD=1828 but at page 53 it states 1827. Sources as "Le Museon" are even less than a tertiary source. The more detailed modern secondary source that narrated such specific years of the Chaldean Church is the Habbi, which supports his statement on the death day of A.H. with a letter of the priests of Diarkebir dated 25 April 1827 !!!. This good secondary sources is indeed the best reference we can use, and WP does not at all require it shall be available on line: however you are luck because it is also available on line: http://documents.irevues.inist.fr/handle/2042/34999. So I temporary restored 1827, but I suggest to ask to User:Djwilms‎ who is without any doubt the best expert in this matter. A ntv (talk) 08:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer, this is very good reasoning indeed. I have followed your suggestion to ask Djwilms‎ for a third opinion. Cheers --FordPrefect42 (talk) 17:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion in EOCE. As a matter of fact I had to check the date of Hindi's death recently for my own purposes, so have refreshed my memory of the various sources. I have the article in question by Habbi, which uses primary Vatican sources and is undoubtedly correct: Hindi died on 3 April 1827. The incorrect attribution to 1828 seems to have been popularised by Cardinal Eugene Tisserant, who stated 6 April 1828 in his influential 1931 DTC article 'L'Eglise nestorienne'.

Djwilms (talk) 06:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

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