Talk:John Harvey (Australian politician)

African roots

A recent (20 May 2023) news story Salisbury founder John Harvey's African descent left out of history books had an African Australian historian all excited about John Harvey's "African roots" having been hidden. This seems to be derived from it not being widely recorded in Salisbury's history, despite "...his father being a native of St. Helena..." being in his obituary and published interview a few years before his death. My issues with this are:

1. "...a native of..." at the time could have meant "born on" without any ethnic or racial overtone
2. St Helena does not appear to have had an indigenous population when it was discovered in 1502 or 1503 by Portuguese ships
3. St Helena is not normally considered as African (it's almost 2000km away from the mainland)

There were African slaves on the island, so it is possible that Harvey's father had been one, but this reference doesn't prove it. The Legacies of British Slavery website does not mention St Helena, but has quite a few people with the surname Harvey. "Lord Duffis" could be Lord Duffus, but there is no evidence any of those visited St Helena. There are three people in the database with the surname Duffus. Scott Davis ^Talk 10:23, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi Scott. I tend to agree with you on the flimsy evidence, but added it because of the article. Could be changed to refer to the "historian who thinks..." though. I think that the use of the words "native of St Helena" in the Trove article at that time does however suggest that the father was not European (the term "native" was often used for people of colour anywhere in the world into the 20th century, including by my grandparents), and his features and colouring do point to some ancestors other than European. It is however conjecture at this point and perhaps could be worded to better indicate this. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:06, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Laterthanyouthink:. "Native" could also just refer to birthplace - see Australian Natives' Association for example, which was exclusively white. Skin colour in old photos is very hard to discern. I agree he appears darker than others, but working outside can do that, and at least one of the group photos appears to have bright sunlight from one side so the shaded sides of peoples faces are darker, and he's on the end facing in. A great granddaughter says she has DNA evidence in the comments at his SA History Hub page. I haven't gotten much help from https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1583321/what-was-a-native-of-st-helena yet. --Scott Davis ^Talk 07:28, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I realise that, and it would be good to see exactly what the DNA evidence reveals exactly. His features and not just his skintone do seem to suggest a non-northern European ancestry, but who knows? Also, it's not really clear why he was taken to Ireland. I don't know anything about him, apart from what I've read here. Hopefully something else will be published to verify or counteract the story, anyway. Thanks for following up. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 02:21, 29 May 2023 (UTC)