Talk:Johannes Enschedé (printer, born 1708)

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Requested move 24 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is consensus to move this to the proposed title. No further inputs from the oppose since 25 August. Best, (closed by non-admin page mover) Reading Beans 17:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

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Johannes Enschedé (1708-1780) → Johannes Enschedé (printer, born 1708) – This printer was the first in a line of four roughly similar people named Johannes Enschedé. He ran a prominent similarly named company called Joh. Enschedé. Wikipedia doesn't ordinarily use lifespan ranges for disambiguation of people (especially with a hyphen). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:13, 24 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 07:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. Non-standard parenthetical qualifier with hyphenated vital dates should be indeed replaced by the above-submitted standard form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:31, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose disambiguator, instead move to Johannes Enschedé I. This is inline with the other pages listed at Johannes Enschedé and seems to be what he is more frequently referred as; GBooks lists 109 results for "Johannes Enschedé" 1708-1780 versus 162 for "Johannes Enschedé I". Curbon7 (talk) 11:51, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

The 109 goes up to 517 if you use an en dash instead of a hyphen (see here), and goes up to 845 if you just couple the name with 1708 instead of "1708-1780", and goes up to nearly 2000 if you just couple it with 1780. "Johannes Enschedé Sr" gets only 2. So most uses don't seem to include "I" or "Sr", although I don't object to using "I" here. I still think Johannes Enschedé (printer, born 1708) is more appropriate. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:36, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

• The "prominent similarly named company" was a family-owned and operated company. His son has a page called Johannes Enschedé II. I guess you could just use Sr. and Jr. instead of I and II, but I also don't understand the objection to using the birth-death dates. I am no expert on Wikipedia bio titles, however. There are more notable Johannes Enschedé people later on in the company's life (the prominent company still exists, but no longer prints currency for the Netherlands), but I lost track trying to track them all down. Jane (talk) 12:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Rather than lifespan ranges, Wikipedia generally uses a broad notable characteristic description (e.g., "musician" or "politician"), adding a nationality or using a narrower characteristic description (e.g., "pianist" instead of "musician" or "mayor" instead of "politician") if needed for further disambiguation, and then resorts to adding the birth year only if that's still not enough. If the birth year is unclear, the death date is used instead of the birth date. The full lifespan range is never used (well, it's hard to say "never" on Wikipedia, but it's discouraged and rare). That's a bit of an oversimplification, of course, but it should suffice to say why I said what I sad about the lifespan. See WP:NCPDAB, WP:DAB and WP:TITLEDAB. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
• I'd support Johannes Enschedé I, which offers natural disambiguation, is more concise, and is at least common enough in sources to be a credible title. The proposed version certainly beats the status quo, though. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 08:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.