Talk:Jebala people

Born again Christian site being main ref for this page

Re the Joshua project being main source for info on this page...........is it possible to get less biased ref for stats and data?Opiumjones 23 (talk) 00:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)nduls

Sources

The info on this page changes constantly. We need sources as to origins . I feel that it is more complicated than, middle eastern arabs!!Opiumjones 23 (talk) 22:24, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I have deleted the two references as the first was a dead link and the second is unreliable (judging for the rediculously flawed map of the Jbala distribution). Please provide references from specialized sources.MassNssen (talk) 14:43, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I just took a look at that map. It's actually so horrible it's funny. That website is unfortunately used a lot here on Wikipedia as a source, particularly on articles relating to Maghreban ethnicities, and really needs to be stamped out. Elostirion (talk) 15:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

who wrote this s**t

who this sick ?? who write this stupid article.

I'm 100% from jebala and I tell him :

jebala are ARABS not berbers .

We speak our own Arabic Dialect not 'Moroccan Arabic' because MOROCCAN ARABIC is something doesn't exist !! every region has his own dialect and accent and our dialect is called "jebliya or chamalia " (northern Arabic) and it's different than the others region's dialects .

so stop writing stupid thing about my region and my culture we are ARABS & our Language is ARABIC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnA-Yebli (talk • contribs) 20:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

First, thanks to avoid this kind of language

Second (and last), the informations given in the article are sourced by academic works and researches (the reference that you deleted!), unfortunately your comments (and your vandalism on the article) aren't confirmed by any academic study.

In this case, the only solution is to revert your contributions.

Omar-Toons (talk) 19:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

There are differents academic sources about Jbala people, they are not berbers, they are multiethnic people who speaks arabic, Jbala arabic was influenced by the first arab colons in the 7th century in Morocco. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.166.177 (talk) 22:41, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

jebala don't speak Moroccan Arabic

jebala speak their own arabic dialect ! it's very different . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.143.11.143 (talk) 20:46, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

the map is wrong

because the dialect of tangier is 99% the same to the tetouani arabic ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.143.11.143 (talk) 20:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

And both are distinct from the Jebli Arabic, even if both are non-Hilalian dialects.

Omar-Toons (talk) 12:50, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes its completely wrong alot of people of branes and tsoul are complaining they do not belong to jebala and have different orgins Barnoussihistory123 (talk) 11:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

here is the real map of jebala !

put this after youtubedotcom /watch?v=TlUAWfs2M7A&playnext=1&list=PLB74D3958D02C786F — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.214.193.81 (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Origin

41.143.156.228 asked me to have a look at the Jebala ancestral origins. He believes that the local Arabic-speaking population is of Berber heritage, and that it adopted the Arabic language during the medieval era with the spread of Islam [1]. This is, in fact, true [2]. Actually, most Arabic-speaking populations in Morocco and elsewhere in the Maghreb are of Berber ancestral stock. Besides genomic analysis, this is also discernible through uniparental DNA markers, as they largely belong to the E1b1b (M215) paternal haplogroup like the adjacent Berber-speaking populations [3]. The maternal DNA of the Tetouan population in the Jebala region is likewise similar to that of the Oujda population. They have elevated frequencies of haplogroup H (highest among the Tuareg) and comparably lower frequencies of the T and R0 clades, the latter of which are more common in the Arabian peninsula [4]. The Beni-Mellal are among the few local Arabic-speaking groups that actually do appear to have significant Arabian ancestry since, in the Duffy antigen system, they are mostly Duffy negative (Fy*o or Fy*bes) like the peninsular Arabs, while most Berber speakers and other Hamitic populations in Africa are largely Duffy positive - particularly those in the more isolated regions [5]. Another key distinguishing metric between the populations of Berber and Arabian origin is the cephalic index/cranial index. Berber groups tend to be dolichocephalic or mesocephalic (long-headed or medium-headed), whereas the peninsular Arabs are often brachycephalic (broad-headed), especially the Mehri and other native tribes of southern Arabia. Ironically, the latter area is where the Arabic-speaking natives of Jebala now trace descent. Soupforone (talk) 16:04, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Hello Soupforone! Well first of all I dont think you should support a sock-puppet like user:JovanAndreano which uses new IP adresses on a daily basis to mislead wikipedia pages and people. He uses a Ip adress instead of a account because all of his accounts are blocked for his POV pushing. Ofcourse he asks you to do the editing because this page is protected after he started a edit war, and he can't get in now.

Information from slidesharesare not reliable sources. Claiming that most arabic-speaking populations are of berber stock is neither a argument for the origin of the Jebala people. Haplogroup E-M35 originates in East-Africa, and is naturally also present amongst arabs, which the genetics spread into the middle-east during the paleolithic, the berber haplogroup is E- M81 trough which a indigenous berber heritage is claimed. There is no sources for the part in which you talk about the DNA of the people of Tetouan and Oujda, so I cant see where you got that argument from. Using pictures from Tinypic is neither a source of evidence. You talked about their sizes of their heads, if you had sources in which the sized of the heads of the people of the Jebala were compared with the ones of the arabs and berbers, than it could have been a great argument. But this is just a general conclusion.

So what you're trying to say is that everyone in morocco is of berber origin, totally ignoring the fact that over the past 3000 years many ethnic groups have settled in Morocco, including many phoenicians, arabs and jews which share the same semitic genetic origin. I would love to see some specific dna research about the jebala people, but for now the sources indicate another origin.

The Jebala people are dominantly of arabian origin, and the Riff people which dominates the Northern Mountains are the berbers. Jebala means mountains in arabic and riff people are mountain people aswell. That is why they get confused about it, but there is a difference between the Jebal (mountain) and the jebala people (mountain people). Jebala and riff people have different ancestors, and dont only speak another language. Language neither is a good indicator of someones origin in Morocco in which alsmost all of the population knows how to speaks arabic. Though there are minority group in the North-WEstern Mountains which belong to arab tribes, which have settled there during the 7th century and after the expulsion in Al Andalus like the Banu Hud, Abbadid and Idrissid. There is a major difference between Jebala people and Riff people, which these sources state aswell.

link 1, link 2, link 3, link 4, link 5, link 6

Alhaqiha (talk) 10:09, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the JovanAndreano thing. I was just sharing my insight on this after the 41.143.156.228 ip asked me to do so. Anyway, what I was pointing out was that Arabic-speaking Moroccans in general are largely of Berber ancestral origin, like the adjacent Berber-speaking populations. This can be discerned through various standard anthropological indicators such as the cephalic index, as well as via genetics like uniparental markers (the Tetouan and Oujda mtDNA was typed by Rhouda et al. in several analyses [6]) and human leukocyte antigens [7]. Exceptions to this include the Beni-Mellal tribe, which does appear to have significant Arabian ancestry. Also, the slideshare link actually paraphrases a detailed work by Simon Lévy on the local Berber/Arabic linguistic situation [8]. Nonetheless, I do understand your point. Regards-- Soupforone (talk) 03:00, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge on the topic, that is appreciated!Alhaqiha (talk) 08:08, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Likewise! Cheers-- Soupforone (talk) 16:34, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

It's not true that moroccans arabic-speaking are of berbers who adopted arabic, that is a wrong thought, they have arab ancestores who came and mixed with berbers, they are mixed of both but they are arabs because their lenguage and identity is arab, same think happens in Syria or Lebanon, arabs mixed with syriacs and others. Current "berbers" as well are mixed, most of Riffians, Sous and others are mixed with arabs and europeans.

About DNA

All DNA analysis say that arab DNA is high in Jbala region, I don't know why you call berbers to everything and to everybody. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.138.234.76 (talk) 14:21, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

How about you give us a source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Muhned (talk • contribs) 15:53, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

This article has no sense, it seems that who writed this article hate riffian berbers, poor guy.

This article talk more about the differences with the berber riffians than about the jbala people. And jbala are not arabs, they speak arab, but berber arabized. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.34.21.36 (talk) 04:09, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect information 2 tribes do not belong to jebala

This is causing a lot of uproar within the Moroccan community. The Branes and Tsoul are officially not part of the Jebala. The Jebala have a dialect, tradition, and culture that is quite different from that of the Branes and Tsoul. Moreover, the Tsoul are of Zenata origin, which means they do not fall under the Ghomara, Mesmouda, or Sanhaja origins. The Branes are originally Baranis, and part of them are of Awraba origin, so this is also incorrect.

Additionally, I read in this article that the Jebala use pointed roofs, while in Branes and Tsoul, flat roofs are used. Someone from Branes refers to themselves as Bernoussi or Bernoussia, and certainly not Jebli or Jebliya. Proper research should be done before this is shared. In Morocco, it is also unknown, and there are few people who even know that Branes and Tsoul still exist. I am willing to prove all of this and, if necessary, start a petition with all Bernoussi people and those from the Tsoul (which is actually called Ait Tsoul and not Beni Tsoul) who are complaining internationally about this wiki, both in Dutch and English, etc. Barnoussihistory123 (talk) 11:34, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

i have old documents with proof that we dont belong to jebala were can i send this? Barnoussihistory123 (talk) 12:41, 30 July 2024 (UTC)