Talk:Jane's Addiction

Core/Other Members

Not sure I agree with the definition of "Core" and "Other" members of the bans in respect of the bass players - yes, Chaney was the most recent, but Avery was the player during the period they were mostly active, and plays on all but the last record. Also considered core creative part of the songwriting on all their iconic output.

Not sure Chaney was ever a full-blown partner, he may have been a hired-hand?

Bit like Lennon being "Other" to the Beatles 'cos he wasn't present for the "Anthology" project??!?

chaney wrote and recorded with them and was credited as part of the band in the credits to strays.

he also played in the follow up projects to this band with dave and eric. he was full blown.

Maybe wait and see who plays bass on the forthcoming reunion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.186.227 (talk) 10:25, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps something should be mentioned about martyn lenoble feeling very hard done by and the band owing him money following his departure in 2002? he says it himself in the 'Whores' biography.

What happened to all of the Casey Niccoli references? She not only directed and edited the early Jane's Addiction videos, but did the artwork for the albums, and co-wrote, co-directed and edited Gift. I think she deserves mention for these things.

Eric Avery's return

Hello - me again - now I'm really confused - the reference link doesn't mention the detail lineup for the awards show in April - where has the info that Avery will be playing come from? Navarro's blog (www.6767.com) names the other three, implying that, so far at least, Avery isn;t confirmed as on board for this show???

I note that Avery is now listed as a "core" member though LOL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.186.227 (talk) 12:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I have now added a citation that details Avery's return to the band. Tarc (talk) 12:58, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Just came across it on Reuters and was coming back to correct myself - see you beat me to it! Nice one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.50.186.227 (talk) 13:01, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Why was the information on the October and November shows removed?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.171.177.64 (talk) 00:18, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Genre sources

Can anyone cite a reiable source on the band's genres, especially the "alternative metal" tag, which I dispute. The band just doesn't really fit. A published source (Essi Berelian's "Rough Guide to Heavy Metal") calls them "alternative rock" and "art-rock", explicitly stating they are the very definition of those genres. It never mentions alternative metal though. Prophaniti (talk) 00:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

They are called alternative metal on AllMusicGuide...

http://www.allmusicguide.com/cg/amg.dll 

VolvonDoom (talk) 08:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

why does allmusicguide get to decide what genre this band is. let's send them a message on their site and ask or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.120.158 (talk) 12:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

In the section on Deconstruction, I don't know what a " one-off album" is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.210.150 (talk) 19:33, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

why does allmusicguide get to decide what genre this band is. I saw Nine Inch Nails labeled with the "Teen Pop" (WTF-ingF) category and Wham! with the "Punk/New Wave" category on that website, so for the record, that's a hell of a good question. JA is not remotely metal to me, but I guess there isn't much I can do when a site that labels NIN as Teen Pop is used as a reliable Wikipedia source. 74.69.64.52 (talk) 10:11, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Describing Wham! as punk/new wave is a bit of a stretch, alright. Describing Nine Inch Nails as teen pop seems pretty spot on to me. They're obviously aimed at young teens. 193.178.95.4 (talk) 10:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Funk metal

I think this is band's style is largely funk metal, and thus it should be added. Two that come to mind are "Been Caught Stealing" and "Suffer Some" but that's beside the point. Anyone agree with me that it should be added?

I think the genre section should say: Alternative rock
Alternative metal
Funk metal
because they aren't really a "hard rock" band. ^Tezkag₇₂ 22:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

you may think that, but that doesn't make it so. no way are jane's addiction a funk rock band.

psychedelic alternative rock/alternative hard rock with punk influences. sometimes its hard to nail genres done. they may not fit the regular hard rock genre's image, but they do rock very hard indeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.120.158 (talk) 12:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Name origin

Does anyone have a reference for the origin of the band's name? Bongomatic 02:23, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Genres

Shouldn't the genre list also include alternative metal? They were one of the pioneers, after all. --LordNecronus (talk) 14:58, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I personally don't see Jane's Addiction as a metal band, I think they are alternative period and shouldn't be listed as a metal band. But if you have a source to back up them being a metal band I guess that's fine because Source>opinion. I still don't get why we can't GNR a metal when they are, yet we can call Jane's Addiction an alt band one.Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 19:15, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

They're mentioned several times as an alternative metal band on the alternative metal article. --86.0.183.95 (talk) 12:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's what Allmusic lists Jane's Addiction under styles:

-Alternative Pop/ Rock

-Alternative Metal

-College Rock

-Dance-Rock

And here's what Rolling Stone says on their artist page on their site, "Jane's Addiction blended elements of art rock, punk, metal, funk and glamour into an ambitious musical". VH1 mentioned them Mountain Song on their "100 greatest hard rock songs" list where they refered to them as something like "in the '80s LA was mainly known for metal, but it also gave us one of the alt rock greats in Jane's Addiction" or something like that.

Jane's genre is debatable, but we do know for a fact that they mixed a lot of styles into their music. I personally just don't see anything metal about them, but again "source>opinion". Though it is already mentioned the article that they had some influences from gothic rock and metal and I think that's good enough.Rockgenre (talk)Rockgenre 00:25, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with "Rockgenre". I don't see anything metal about Jane's Addiction. They're a little on the heavier side of Alternative Rock and maybe drew some influences from an old metal band or two (although more from psychedelia in my view), but I don't see that as incentive for actually labeling them metal. To me they represent simple Alternative Rock in it's formative years (which is a fusion of rock sounds anyway). Then again, neither do I see anything really metal about Red Hot Chili Peppers and they also get the tag quite often. Go figure. I guess individual opinions don't count though. 74.69.64.52 (talk) 10:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Jane's Addiction is considered alternative metal by reliable sources that discuss that genre. Mind you, the core of the band's sound is essentially 70's metal meets 80's goth. WesleyDodds (talk) 11:24, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Eric's not writing with JA (2010)

I can't add this reference because the article is semi-protected... but here's his twit about not writing with Jane's... in case someone can add it: http://twitter.com/ericavery/statuses/8018380744

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.246.84.43 (talk) 22:14, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Duff McKagan as Avery replacement?

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=135547

Guns N' Roses guitarist Slash, who's Duff's friend and bandmate, states "I think Duff is doing something with Jane's Addiction". There have been rumors for a while that Duff was going to be replacing Eric, and Slash is pretty close with Duff, so I doubt he learned of this from rumors on the internet as opposed to Duff himself. I'm not familiar with Wiki's policies in this type of situation, but if it's worth noting (even as a rumor on the main page), then I'm just letting you all know. If it's not worth noting until confirmed, I completely understand. This isn't an official confirmation by any means, just seems pretty credible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.152.111 (talk) 23:35, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed that Duff is writing and performing with Jane's on their new album, however Ive yet to come across anything that confirms that he actually has replaced Avery full time, only titles stating "Duff has joined Jane's" but just saying hes writing with them in the articles. While Duff joining Jane's would be awesome (im a huge fan of both), nothing has been confirmed by either Duff or Jane's. It could happen, but with Duff also pushing forward and writing a new album for Loaded as well, it doesnt seem likely at this moment. HrZ (talk) 13:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, McKagan joined for about 6 months, helped with the new album & some live shows, then left [1]. He was introduced as the new bassist earlier this year in the band's Guitar Center Sessions (I just saw the program on DirecTV's 101 Network, including a great acoustic version of 'Jane Says' and a few other songs.) .. Apparently they taped in May and the show was first broadcast in Sept. [2] -PrBeacon (talk) 20:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Had A Dad

This was a very popular song on the album that at least deserves a stub of it's own article. I've talked to people who barely know Jane's Addiction that know this song, but not "Mountain Song". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrmoustache14 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Citation Error?

The article uses citation 53 as reference for some illness of Farrell. But the cited article does not reveal any information on an illness? (have no account on English WP and posting this anonymously. Hope, it's OK. Please feel free to delete this.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.5.170.96 (talk) 22:08, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Jane Bainter

I'm not saying there should be a page for Jane Bainter, the band's namesake, but there should be some sort of a mention that she didn't get hardly if any money from JA or Warner Bros. I read it in a interview she did back in 2003. If you search Jane Bainter on Google it'll come up. --Matt723star (talk) 22:49, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

first link sketchy & dead (cites [1] & [38?])

The article is mostly great but check out the very first cite- it's dead now, only available latest screenshot is 2010 available on "archive.is", via googling "(Avery’s) departure should not come as a shock to fans". That old 'Stereokill' was a sketchy source anyway by the standards I am familiar with now (cite 38 or somehere it appears again). So this otherwise fine article needs proper source checking. Which is why I'm putting it here on the talk page because I'm not sure if that's a wikiproject or how that works, and I suspect more than just this one sketchy dead link right off the top. Phaedrx (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

hunch correct, see very last cite re: Dave Sitek (TVOTR) the "Spinner" text once again is googlable but the link redirects to some aol.radio homepage I am not entirely familiar with, nor the process to repair, remove, update these links. Not saying the credit is incorrect as above but that the foundation is giving way in this otherwise solid article. Phaedrx (talk) 17:24, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

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Way to improve?

Just throwing this out there, but shouldn't there be a mention of the band's two biggest hits, "Jane Says" and "Been Caught Stealing", somewhere in the introductory paragraphs? Maybe add a clause to the sentence that reads "The band's first two studio albums, Nothing's Shocking (1988) and Ritual de lo habitual (1990), which included the hit songs "Jane Says" and "Been Caught Stealing", respectively, were released to widespread critical acclaim, and an increasing cult fanbase. "

As it reads now, the average person who checks out this article would not know it's the same band that produced those radio staples. And that's sort of the point of an encylopedia, isn't it?

Third degree 14 (talk) 02:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Casey Niccoli piece in the Huffington Post

I found this today. I consider it to be a primary source, but of interest to editors.

• Niccoli, Casey (2024-07-17). "I Was A Creative Force Behind One Of The Biggest Rock Bands Of The '90s. Then I Watched Them Erase Me From Their Story". HuffPost. Retrieved 2024-07-17.

Note that Niccoli's statement that I was completely wiped from the history of the band on Wikipedia is inaccurate. As per WP:WikiBlame, Casey Niccoli was already present in the youngest revision searched dating from 16:01, 10 July 2024. (See this search .) The mention is in the Jane's Addiction § 1985–1987: Formation and Jane's Addiction section. I do not know if other mentions of Niccoli have been removed or are pertinent. Peaceray (talk) 19:42, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

The Casey Niccoli biography page has been recreated and deleted several times, which could be a source of irritation. The "Classic Girl" article mentions her as the inspiration.

We could certainly add more material to flesh out the story. Nothing wrong with looking through the early literature and relaying that to Wikipedia. For instance, Rolling Stone from 1989 and 1991, Los Angeles Times from 1990 and 1993, and BAM from 1991. I would want to see WP:SECONDARY sources confirming claims such as Niccoli coming up with the first two album titles. Binksternet (talk) 21:04, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I just read the article. The only see one reference to Casey Niccoli in the Wikipedia article now, about her contribution toward naming the band.

Here are the concrete contributions she claims in the article, in the order she lists them in the article:

-- A mixed-media sculpture made for the cover of Jane’s Addiction’s 1990 album, “Ritual de lo Habitual”, co-created with Perry Farrell.

-- Perry Farrell wore her sexy women's clothes at performances. I guess whether this counts as an artistic contribution depends on how unusual and artistic those clothes were.

-- She taught Perry Farrell basic guitar chords, which he used to compose songs. Not really a contribution, but still interesting that Perry didn't even know that and she had to teach him.

-- She took the early band photos for the inner sleeve of their second album, “Nothing’s Shocking”.

-- Co-created the sculpture for the cover of “Nothing’s Shocking”.

-- Named the albums “Ritual de lo Habitual” and “Nothing’s Shocking”.

-- Co-directed the fan video “Soul Kiss”.

-- She "directed multiple successful projects, including the groundbreaking video for the song “Been Caught Stealing,” which won an MTV Video Music Award in 1991 and is rated #48 in VH1’s Best 100 Music Videos of all time. This video alone significantly contributed to the band’s commercial success due to its frequent radio airplay and heavy rotation on MTV."

-- Wrote, directed, co-edited, and starred in the film “Gift” alongside Perry, featuring the music of Jane’s Addiction.

-- Directed several other music videos for the band, including for the songs “Classic Girl,”“Stop” and “Ocean Size.”

-- Financially supported Perry Farrell during "the early part of his career". Again not an artistic contribution, but interesting nonetheless.

All together, this is clearly far more than "band member's girlfriend". If what she says in the article is true, then Perry Farrell is being a jackahole by pretending that's all she was, and Wikipedia should make it right in this article. Greg Lovern (talk) 06:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

"If what she says in the article is true" -- that's the key, we really need something other than a self-published account. Further, it isn't our job here to "make it right in this article" but to provide what's reliable and verifiable. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 18:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Yep, I agree. Let's keep the status quo where a woman continues to be marginalized despite her obviously being a big part of something folks have a strong inventive to keep suppressed.

"What's the evidence against the guy? Her word against his? Dang, I guess she is probably lying unless we can get him to admit he's guilty." 209.252.168.211 (talk) 14:58, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

She was basically their art director, much like Ray Pettibon was for Black Flag. Can you imagine a Black Flag without Raymond Pettibon? 50.214.75.45 (talk) 17:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Can we get verification from reliable sources for this? Yes, we can mention that she had an art direction role if its from the sources, but keep in mind that functioning as an art director is hardly being a member of the band. Peaceray (talk) 16:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree whole-heartedly. To be sure, we should be seeking corroboration in music journalism and elsewhere. But Farrell's silence on these matters in the wake of Niccoli's article speaks volumes. I find her account credible, and believe she deserves at least credit/recognition and beyond that some small share of royalties. 100.2.75.205 (talk) 23:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Regarding credibility: I submitted the article to Ad Fontes Media for assessment, and it came back with a reliability score of 43.3 on a scale from 0 to 64; AFM explains thus: "a reliability score of 24 or higher is considered acceptable, while a score of 32 or higher represents good reliability". 100.2.75.205 (talk) 01:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of the Ad Fontes Media assessment, English Wikipedia policies & guidelines apply to this site. As WP:PRIMARY states Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved.

The No original research policy goes on to state:

• Policy: Unless restricted by another policy,

  1. Primary sources that have been reputably published may be used in Wikipedia, but only with care, because it is easy to misuse them.
  2. Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. While a primary source is generally the best source for its own contents, even over a summary of the primary source elsewhere, do not put undue weight on its contents.
  3. A primary source may be used on Wikipedia only to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. For example, an article about a musician may cite discographies and track listings published by the record label, and an article about a novel may cite passages to describe the plot, but any interpretation needs a secondary source.
  4. Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so.
  5. Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them.
  6. Do not add unsourced material from your personal experience, because that would make Wikipedia a primary source of that material.
  7. Use extra caution when handling primary sources about living people; see WP:Biographies of living persons § Avoid misuse of primary sources, which is policy.

Peaceray (talk) 02:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Regarding policy point 1, I would argue that we can accept HuffPost as a reputable venue of publication (it is regularly referenced by practicing journalists and has won a Pulitzer prize). Regarding point 7, we can follow its stricture by doing due diligence on points 2-6. The devil will be in the details, of course, but there seems to be no bar in principle from using this source (in conjunction with others) to make suitable amendments to the entry. 100.2.75.205 (talk) 15:37, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Please see WP:HUFFPOCON, which I feel applies here since this is a first-person essay in HuffPo's "Personal" section. As has been noted, mentioning her role with the band is likely appropriate assuming we have reliable, independent sources that attest to the contributions she made. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 15:57, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.vh1.com/news/hw446s/janes-addiction-ritual-de-lo-habitual-album-facts#:~:text=Ritual%20de%20Lo%20Habitual%20is%20the%20third%20album,Avery%20on%20bass%2C%20and%20Stephen%20Perkins%20on%20drums corroborates the claims about direction and status of Been Caught Stealing video. 100.2.75.205 (talk) 01:14, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and she is properly credited over at Been Caught Stealing. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 01:19, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.discogs.com/release/4911455-Janes-Addiction-Nothings-Shocking corroborates photography credit for Niccoli; it should be included here or added to Nothing's Shocking entry. 100.2.75.205 (talk) 01:42, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:DISCOGS; not a reliable source. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 01:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

https://janesaddiction.org/discography/janes-addiction/movies/soul-kiss/ also credits her with direction of Soul Kiss--could fit under style and legacy section? 100.2.75.205 (talk) 02:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Again, a fansite blog is not a reliable source, and this article isn't necessarily the place to catalog every thing that this person is connected to. I don't understand the persistence here.--ZimZalaBim ^talk 02:34, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Brendan Mullen's book, Whores: An Oral Biography, quotes bassist Eric Avery on JA's fashion style and aesthetic atmosphere: "Casey definitely had a huge impact on Perry and therefore a profound impact on us as a band. She has a great aesthetic sense" (p. 84). This goes to the feel or vibe of the JA scene and their presentation, especially early on--and Niccoli helped substantially to engineer that; seems worth mentioning here (maybe in one of the '80s history sections?). 68.161.200.84 (talk) 14:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)