Talk:Isle of Grain

Untitled

I still disagree with the statement that something called specifically Isle of Grain can be a peninsula. The article on peninsula says that it is "an extension of land ... surrounded by water on three sides The most elementary geographical term - an island - is always that it is ENTIRELY surrounded by water - and here we have an island called what it isn't!!

Please let's get it right. The Isle of Grain, like the Isle of Thanet and the Isle of Harty, were all at one time proper islands, entirely surrounded by water. Marshland has now filled in the fourth side, but it doesn't change history. When IoG was an island it was just that, and it was located at the eastern end of the Hoo Peninsula - "an extension of land etc etc ...."

Also, just out of interest, I wonder two other things. How can a village be called an island? I can't remember ever thinking that the village of Grain was called Isle of Grain, nor that Hoo Peninsula was ever called it, or got mistaken for it. I worked on the Peninsula - Hoo Peninsula - for some years and never came across any such misapprehensions. I taught geography, by the way ...

Peter Shearan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peter Shearan (talk • contribs) 19:43, 9 November 2004

-- (originally posted on User talk:Peter Shearan):

The history of this article's writing is getting a little silly and I am as guilty I think, since it would have been better to have discussed the whole thing BEFORE we both keep chopping and changing it. The information I added - and which you have now deleted - was, to my mind, factual, historical information taken from an historical source (the 1801 map). Is it not still valid to have it in - perhaps given the section a heading: History of the island maybe? It does not as now written, point out that at the beginning that the whole place was simply marshland (yes you do say it later, but this is scene-setting stuff, isn't it?). There is also no mention that the place has been occupied since at least Roman times - the church has Roman tiling built into its fabric and was part of a nunnery.

• I think that most people will in the first instance want information on the Isle today, and that its history - in as much detail as possible - would fit best in a history section, as you propose.

And you are still persisting with the completely wrong geographical fact that an island is a peninsula ... and that a village is an island!!

• The Isle is no longer an island - it is not surrounded by water! Instead, it adjoins the Hoo Peninsula at one end, making it a peninsula. This is by no means unusual - see also the Isle of Purbeck. The occasional terming of the village as "Isle" is indeed unusual, but I have nowhere claimed it is an island. For another example, see Isle of Whithorn.

The idea that Port Victoria was built as an alternative to Tilbury is completely wrong. I have an article in front of me (in Railway Magazine March 1933) which gives the true reason for its opening. I quote (the italics are mine): " In the late 1870's the South Eastern Railway decided to promote a line through the (Hoo) district, with a view to competing for the traffic from London to Sheerness, formerly an almost unchallenged stronghold of the London, Chatham and Dover Railway. For some years past a steamer had been running from Sheerness to Strood, whence South Eastern trains gave a connection to London. ... the journey was of some length, along the rather tortuous course of the Medway. In 1879 the South Eastern obtained an Act for a branch leaving their North Kent line at a point about (3.5 miles) from Gravesend ... to Stoke ... In the following year powers were obtained for an extension, (3.5 miles) long, to St James, in the Isle of Grain, where a deep-water pier was to be built on the Medway. A ferry was to connect the new pier with Sheerness ..."

I quoted that at some length since it once again shows that what is now Grain village was, like many others on Hoo Peninsula, called after the name of their parish church - thus Allhallows (All Saints), Hoo St Mary, and so on. The railway was opened throughout on September 11 1882. The pier was built for passenger traffic and indeed Queen Victoria was a passenger! In his book (The Kent Village Book 1999) Alan Bignell says that she "... took a rather curious fancy to Grain as a chosen departure point for trips to Germany" and that Port Victoria (named for her after all!) "was built essentially as a railway station at the end of a line from Windsor"!! So competition with Tilbury - then a freight-only dock - wasn't the case.

• Excellent research - I look forward to seeing your corrections and improvements to the article.

Almost finished! There seem to be rather a lot of unwritten references - eg the names of the marshes; container port (there is a reference under Port to containers; and many others. Surely they don't all need referencing? Stoke Marshes and Stoke itself are so insignificant that they can just be included in this article.

• I usually find it best to put in a link for any possible related topics, even if they may seem marginal. For instance, more and more village articles are being created, and I strongly suspect that at some point there will be an article on Stoke, Kent.

I know - I'm probably going to be in your black books now, but can we please discuss ... Peter Shearan 15:07, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• Not at all - I'm glad of the chance to discuss it, and will copy this to Talk:Isle of Grain, where I should have explained my previous changes. Warofdreams 15:47, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

---

The Isle of Grain is not an island. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee M (talk • contribs) 18:52, 6 December 2004

Rhode Island

Nor is Rhode Island. You got a problem with that? - Herman B. Ing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee M (talk • contribs) 18:52, 6 December 2004

• Yes, I do! If you look at the article on Rhode Island (the state) you will see that part of it is called just that, and that it is in fact an island, with an alternative name!!! Peter Shearan 09:18, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nonsense "sentence" deleted

The last sentence of the "History" section made no sense at all, and I could find no obvious way of rearranging it into an intelligible sentence. It had two references, both to this page, which does nothing to clarify what was meant. So I have deleted the sentence, along with its references. Maproom (talk) 07:26, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

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Park a reference

• ISSN 2046-9802 "Isle of Grain, Hoo Peninsula, Kent:Outline Historic Area Assessment". ISSN 2046-9802. Retrieved 1 July 2018. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help). The work has been done, and many issues clarified and expanded. See also Yantlet. ClemRutter (talk) 09:25, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Citation need - quoted material (section Port Victoria)

I have raised citation needs against two passages in the 'Port Victoria' section from a work by Alan Bignell which is presumably that mentioned in the bibliography at foot of the page. They ought to have a reference.Cloptonson (talk) 18:02, 8 March 2021 (UTC)