Talk:Iranian architecture

Merge proposal

I propose, after discussion on Talk:Azeri style, to merge Azeri style and Razi style with Iranian architecture. @Johnbod and Ghirlandajo: Please comment since you were involved at Talk:Azeri style.

• Support : As nominator.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 09:07, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
• Support but please make it clear in this section what the proposals are! Johnbod (talk) 14:50, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
  • Ok, I've done this. Johnbod (talk) 17:57, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

@Wikaviani: I suggest considering merging Khorasani style and Isfahani style into this page too. All of these proposed 'styles' come from the book attributed to Mohammad Karim Pirnia and are all solely based on one reference and as is mentioned in Talk:Azeri style, the naming system used by Pirnia is confusing. In Persian Wikipedia all the proposed styles were merged into one page about the book, I did the same thing on here but it seems the book itself is not notable either. Thanks! Khenamothara (talk) 03:10, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

This is another belated comment after looking at the article, but I support Khenamothara's suggestion above. If these "styles" are only the idea of one author, then they're not WP:NOTABLE, and I've indeed never seen either term used anywhere else. I can help with a merge proposal, if there's no obvious point I'm missing here. It's also unclear why Parthian style would not simply be named Parthian architecture (reflecting every other architecture article) or merged with Parthian art (which has an architecture section); something else to consider. R Prazeres (talk) 00:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

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Expanding Islamic period section

As the Islamic period section of this article was essentially unsourced and only included some brief, generic commentary, I've started expanding it by copying and adapting relevant materials from Islamic architecture and some other relevant articles. This is not meant as a final product, just a starting point from which to further revise, trim down, expand on desired topics, etc. There's a lot of ground to cover even for a summary, especially when taking into account all the related developments across the wider region, and if it ends up too long it can easily be on article on its own (although some periods do have their own articles). I've largely left this article alone until now, so any feedback is welcome. R Prazeres (talk) 05:24, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was a consensus to merge.

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Propose merging these four articles into Iranian architecture:

• Parsian style → Iranian architecture
• Pre-Parsian style → Iranian architecture
• Khorasani style → Iranian architecture
• Isfahani style → Iranian architecture

These are a series of small articles each based solely on the same source (Pirnia), with some also citing one additional source (Fallāḥʹfar). Per previous discussions above, these topics do not meet WP:NOTABILITY, as this division of periods/styles of Iranian architecture is proposed by a single author and is not repeated in other reliable sources (not in English, anyways). It's also a little confusing on its own and some terms are even used in other contexts with a different meaning ("Isfahani style" and "Khorasani style" can refer to Persian poetry). At least two previous articles in this series (Azeri style and Razi style) have already been merged here; I think the best way forward is to merge the rest.

Note that per WP:WEIGHT, I don't believe the content of these articles actually merits being retained anywhere in the long term, but I do think it should be moved here first so that we have the option of retaining it, if desired.

Note also that editors can choose to endorse merging some of these and not others, if they like. (Please explain if so, ideally.) R Prazeres (talk) 05:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy ping to those who commented on the 2019 merge: Wikaviani, Johnbod, Ghirlandajo, and Khenamothara. In case they have opinions here. R Prazeres (talk) 19:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Basically fine with this, but the first two seem to have material not presently covered here. Johnbod (talk) 01:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, those two could be merged into the Pre-Islamic section here (which needs work anyways). R Prazeres (talk) 01:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I am in support of this merge proposal, the other source (Fallahfar) is just a repetition of Pirnia's words. Khenamothara (talk) 14:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Comment : Thanks very much for the courtesy ping. The merge sounds good to me. Best.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 02:22, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dealing with Pirnia-specific content

As I explained above, merging content from the various articles dealing exclusively with Pirnia's proposed chronological-stylistic division of Iranian architecture is the minimum step required to comply with WP:NOTABILITY. We have the option of retaining it here if it actually merits inclusion on Wikipedia.

However, as I noted above and as noted by others (Khenamothara at least), this classification scheme is specific to this one author's research and appears to be entirely absent from any other references on Iranian architecture. Even Encyclopedia Iranica's entries on architecture ([1]) make zero mention of it. As such, it is definitely WP:UNDUE and gives a skewed (and confusing) impression of the topic to readers. I also note that there is already a full summary of Pirnia's classification scheme in the first section of this article, which should be more than enough to cover any significance Pirnia's work may have. The rest of the article should follow the WP:MAINSTREAM (per WP:RS and WP:NPOV).

Additionally, the content in question does not add anything useful to what is now already covered with more references elsewhere in this article (at least for the Islamic period): it merely states a classification and lists some monuments as part of it. Some sections on "Azerbaijani" or "Khorasani" architecture could conceivably be part of this article if they were actually discussing regional differences (assuming this is supported by RS), but the content in question here does not do that: it merely assigns entire periods of construction across Iran to one category or another, without support from other sources.

So in the meantime:

• I am bold-deleting the sections on Azerbaijani style, Khorasani style, and Isfahani style (including the recently merged content). These deal with the Islamic period and I am familiar enough with the sources on this topic to be sure that this content does not reflect other references and adds nothing helpful. Feel free to revert and discuss if you disagree, but please base discussion on reliable sources if you do.
• I am leaving the Pirnia-related subsections for the Pre-Islamic architecture section (Pre-Parsian, Parsian, Parthian style) untouched for now, as I am less familiar with this period and I would feel better if other knowledgeable editors could confirm if there is anything worth keeping. Additionally, that section needs more work in general, so perhaps the process of revising and expanding it in the future can deal with this.
• We haven't merged Parthian style, but I would strongly recommend that this article be converted to a redirect to a new article on Parthian architecture (rather than the other way around). Pirnia's use of the term "Parthian" here is different from its conventional usage, so readers looking for a conventional article that's actually about Parthian architecture are currently being led to this rather confusing stub.

R Prazeres (talk) 21:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)