Talk:Ingemar Stenmark

Swedish pronunciation

Actually I doubt the pronunciation is written correctly now ([ˈɪŋmar]). From that you get the impression that the "e" in Ingemar isn't pronounced. But it surely is (at least in standard Swedish). Note that his first name is not identical to that of the film director Bergman. Fomalhaut76 (talk) 11:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

First victory in a Word Cup race on December 17th, 1974

I would like to try to inform:

There, in Madonnna di Campiglio, Italy, Stenmark was placed 22nd after first slalom run - and could win. It's to mention that rules of that time said, regarding second runs (as well slalom as giant slalom): First starter is the 15h of the first run, second starter the 14th a.s.o.; after start of the best timed racer the next one was the 16th, followed by the 17th a.s.o. - There sometimes were exceptiones called "Super Bibbo": First starter of 2nd run was the 5th, followed by the 4th - and the 6th starter was the 6th of first run a.s.o. - Benjamin Raich could win as the 23rd after first run on January 7th, 1999 - and Marc Berthod did it as the 27th (with bib-no 60) on January 7th, 2007 - in each case it was a slalom race and it was the first win of a World Cup race for Mr. Raich and Mr. Berthod! - Divergent to Stenmark's win in 1974, first starter of a second run (as well slalom as giant slalom) was (and is still), that (since maybe the 1990ies) the 30th of first run started/starts first and the racer with the best time started/starts at last. 213.225.35.23 (talk) 12:30, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

"Only" three wins of World Cup Overall

Though Ingemar was victorious 86 times he could solely win three times the "World Cup overall title". If he would be a racer in the present (since the late 1980ies) he had won it (maybe) five or six times. - World Cup scoring system: Originally, points were awarded only to the top 10 finishers in each race, with 25 points for the winner, 20 for second, 15 for third, 11 for fourth, 8 for fifth, 6 for sixth, 4 for seventh, and then decreasing by 1 point for each lower place. At a later time (since 1978/79), points were awarded to the top 15 finishers in each race, with 25 points for the winner a.so. To determine the winner for each discipline World Cup, only a racer's best 3 results would count, even though there would typically be 6–8 races in each discipline. Being the decesive factor in Ingemar's career was as following: For the overall Cup, the best three results in each discipline would be summed. For the 1971–72 season, the number of results counted was increased to 5 in each discipline. The formula used to determine the overall winner varied almost every year over the next decade, with some seasons divided into two portions with a fixed number of results in each period counting towards the overall, while in other seasons the best 3 or 4 results in each discipline would count. - Ingemar did only start in the slalom and giant slalom. Though he could win a lot of races, decisive points were insufficient. His rivals ([[f.e. Peter Lüscher, Andreas Wenzel) did compete in downhills and combinations by collecting those decisive points. Indeed Ingemar did compete in the "Hahnenkamm downhill race on January 17th, 1981, in order to catch points for the combined (he finished 34th, 10.72 seconds behind winner Steven Podborsky (Canada), but he became 3rd in the Combined - by the way, competing in mentioned downhill race was Ingemar's only doing so) and also competing in several Super-Gs, he couldn't win the Overall World Cup once more. Since the late 1980ies there are no limits; each point counts for the Overall World Cup (and until 1991/92 points are awarded to the to 30 finishers in each race - and with 100 points for the winner, 80 for second, 60 for third, 50 for fourth, 45 for fifth a.s.o. - Luc Alphand could be victorious in 1996/97 by collecting points only in the two speed disciplines, downhill and super G – a unique achievement in World Cup history). 213.225.35.23 (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Giant slalom Naeba 1975

He did win on February 21st, 1975 - please, see season 1974-75! Skiscout (talk) 16:36, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Giant Slalom World Cup 1976-77

He didn't win it. Ok, I know that the FIS websites say, he did. But FIS doesn't consider regulation of deduction points. Heini Hemmi was victorious. He scored the same amount (like Ingemar Stenmark) of retained points (115) achieved better results throughout the season in that event (3rd place Sun Valley). --Skiscout (talk) 17:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC).

15.746 points

The "Talk" in the German Wikipedia says that he would have gained 15.746 points if regulations of present had been applied. --Skiscout (talk) 18:43, 6 February 2017 (UTC).

Crude English

This article's English is, to put it mildly, rather poor. It's certainly better than my Swedish, however, but the tone of the article lapses into straight up hero worship at points. Any chance someone with a little more motivation than myself can clear up the grammar, somewhat?

TobusRex (talk) 21:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@TobusRex: (Please place new talk page sections at the end. I've gone ahead and moved this one. See Help:Talk for more info, thanks.) Much of that seems to have been due to a recent addition by Boeing720. I've gone ahead and reverted their addition, keeping WP:PUFFERY in mind. They reverted me back, but the addition is wholly inappropriate (and very awkward in some places, and indecipherable in others). Unfortunately, this didn't resolve the problems, so I've reverted once again. I'm copying the message they left (inappropriately) on my talk page below for reference:

Just have a look at this. School children watching Stenmark. It was the same everywhere. It's no POV/push-POV, but the simple truth. He was as beloved a person can be. And not only for the slalom. There was no other day-time television. Imagine England WC-66, but incarnated in one person, not a team. (Swedish TV "How it was as Sweden followed Stenmark") https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/norrbotten/sa-har-sag-det-ut-nar-sverige-foljde-ingemar-stenmark Boeing720 (talk) 01:44, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

–Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

@Boeing720: enough with the edit warring already. Two editors have now called your edits into question. The English you've attempted to use is absolutely incomprehensible in places. Moreover, where it is understandable (albeit still very poor), as TobusRex put it, it comes across as hero worship. The tone is horribly unencyclopedic, filled with WP:PUFFERY. If you're unable to write about this subject dispassionately, you shouldn't be editing the article. If you're unable to write reasonable English, you shouldn't be making any major additions to this article. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:08, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

I have reverted the edits by Boeing720. The English is beyond horrible, yet alone the poorly formatted references. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:53, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

In the lead, and after the brief sport summary, the main issue is the hysteria (In Swedish: "Stenmarkshysterin") that followed in his tracks. He came from a small northern mountain village and strongly disapproved of interviews. This was rather well known already before his first World Cup victory (at Madonna di Campiglio, Italy, in December 1974). After having won that competition, being like 22nd after the first race, he suddenly became an (unwilling) hero and more. Also people who normally didn't care for sports liked Stenmark. This has no counterpart in any other Swedish sportsman or team.

This is a part of Swedish history. I'm not saying Stenmark is the best Swedish sportsman ever, I'm not even saying that he was the most popular Swedish sports figure (or team) either. But there was a positive commotion and turmoil around him. Not in any way created by Stenmark himself but by Swedish media. As I've pointed out in sources, the people took a pause (especially for the decisive second races) from the schools to the Parliament. (Not at each contest, but in the beginning and at the largest competitions. The Olympics and the World Championships, not to confuse with the World Cup)

Can we now begin to discuss this matter, which in Sweden often is called "Stenmarkshysterin" ? It is no exaggeration (or puffery) to state that "Sweden stood still" many times just because Stenmark should perform. Hospitals didn't close down half an hour, the bus, train and air traffic wasn't affected. But (weekdays especially) most other parts of society took a break for the second races. (A Wimbledon final with Björn Borg could take several hours, but Stenmark's races (including the top 15 from the first race) were brief events.) Before Stenmark, skiing in the parts of Sweden that gets a lot of snow equaled Nordic Skiing, whilst Alpine Skiing was not more known than I guess it possibly may be for instance at Plymouth, five years later tens of thousands of Swedes were traveling either down to the Alps or up to the Scandinavian mountains in February. (By the way. I've met more than one young person who apparently honestly thinks Apollo 11 was a bluff and Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin never has been on the moon.) Boeing720 (talk) 01:07, 28 January 2019 (UTC)