Talk:Hellenic Coast Guard

Hellenic CG officer insignia

The insignia of Hellenic CG personnel (Officers & Petty Officers) are available at this link: http://egov.yen.gr/Folder.2003-07-23.3052/Folder.2003-07-23.3919/diakritika.jpg

If you are interested, save a copy now because this image file is an orphan and may be deleted at any time. Sv1xv (talk) 07:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Old ensign

In Greece all forms of defaced national flags and national flags with other symbols on them were explicitly abolished in 1978 (Law 851 article 11c). Specifically for the Coast Guard Flags this was confirmed with Presidentian Decree 991 of 1980. Since then the Hellenic Navy and the Hellenic Coast Guard use the national flag as an ensign. SV1XV (talk) 04:51, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

• For further proof on the current HCG ensign, see this photo: [1]. SV1XV (talk) 13:29, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Also form the former website of the Hellenic Coast Guard [2]: Την 21η Μαρτίου 1964 το Λιμενικό Σώμα με Β.Δ. αποκτά τη σημαία του η οποία στη στο μέσο του σταυρού φέρει και στις δύο όψεις το σήμα του Λιμενικού Σώματος δηλαδή δύο χρυσόχροες άγκυρες χιαστί εφαπτόμενες των τεσσάρων προς το κέντρο του σταυρού γωνιών των κυανών τετραγώνων. Πολλά χρόνια αργότερα, το 1980, το Π.Δ. 991 όρισε ότι το έμβλημα του Σώματος (δύο άγκυρες χιαστί και τα αρχικά Λ.Σ.) δεν αποτυπώνεται επι της σημαίας αλλά επί της επίχρυσης μεταλλικής σφαίρας που βρίσκεται στο άνω μέρος του κοντού της σημαίας.

Almost exact translation: On March 21, 1964 the CG with a Royal Decre is granted its flag, which bears over center of the cross, on both sides, the emblem of the CG, i.e. two gold anchors... Many years later, in 1980, Presidential Decree 991 defined that the emblem of Corps is not stamped on the flag but on the gilded sphere which is located on the top of the staff of the flag. SV1XV (talk) 09:42, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

After have seen the sources I agree with your previous edit, and I'm going to restore your previous version! Ciao! --Nicola Romani (talk) 18:58, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

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Translation of the name Limeniko Soma (Λιμενικό Σώμα)

I was wondering why we translate the name Limeniko Soma (Λιμενικό Σώμα) as Port Corps and not as Harbor Corps. It's perhaps a small detail, but Port Corps sounds pretty awkward. Both the words 'port' and 'harbor' are the most common translation for the Greek Word Limenas (Λιμένας), so they are interchangeable up to a point.

Yes, there is a slight difference between the two words in English, where port has come to be associated with commercial enterprise while the word harbor indicates a place of safety and anchorage for ships. But this difference does not exist in Greek where we use the word limenas interchangeably.

Two points:

First, as mentioned above, I feel that the translation 'Port Corps' is rather awkward. It doesn't sound good off the tongue, and makes it difficult for a non-Greek speaker to understand how/why a paramilitary force would be called that.

I know that the main title of the article is "Hellenic Coast Guard," but as I am sure most native Greeks here know, Limeniko Soma, that is, Harbor Corps, as I believe it should be translated, is the traditional name of the service since its founding. Moreover, even after the phrase Elliniki Aktofilaki (Ελληνική Ακτοφυλακή) was added to the name of the force, the original name remains popular and is used almost exclusively, regularly by even skipping the term Soma, Corps, by simply saying Limeniko, which works in Greek. In fact, even the seamen (I am using the name used in the US Coast Guard) in the Corps are known as Limenofilakes, literally Harbor-guards. The name appears in the 'Ranks and insignia' subsection - without translation literal or otherwise I may add. This gives the translation of the term quite a bit of importance if you ask me.

Second, and more importantly, why make the distinction. The term harbor is a more general term. Maybe the word port has replaced it for commercial installations in contemporary parlance, especially among professionals, but harbor is still widely used. The key point is, what in the general responsibilities of the Corps does it say that it is only responsible for commercial installations? Why de facto make this distinction, which does exist up to a point in contemporary English?

To be more precise, Article 5, Paragraph 1 of Law 4150/2013 clearly states that, among the other various responsibilities of the Corps, "... public and private harbors/ports and ... their [surrounding] areas" are included. Even in practice the responsibilities of the force have come to expand over the years, probably why the term "Hellenic Coast Guard" was added in the first place - that and perhaps because it was a good way of showing that something was being done without having to actually do something substantial in particular.

I feel that the nature of the force as well as how possible translations sound in English make it more appropriate to translate the name Limeniko Soma as Harbor Corps, and accordingly the full name of the force as Harbor Corps - Hellenic Coast Guard.

On a final note, I would like to add that we should strongly consider updating the overall title of the article into Harbor Corps - Hellenic Coast Guard. The initial law that renamed the Corps, Law 3922/2011, in Article 1, Paragraph 2, it states that the term "Hellenic Coast Guard" will be the term used in the "international relations" of the force. Is Wikipedia an instrument of the Corps? Why should we use only this term because it does in its international relations.

I believe that it is more appropriate to use the full name of the force, Harbor Corps - Hellenic Coast Guard, as currently used (Law 3922/2011; Article 1, Paragraph 1), in the main title of the article. This is the case in other articles on European Border and Coast Guards, for example, see the French "Maritime Gendarmerie" or the Estonian "Police and Border Guard Board." What is more, the term Harbor Corps is closer to how the force is referred to and talked about in the country, both in public discourse and colloquially. Again as mentioned before, even the first enlisted rank is still known as Limenofilakas 'Harbor-guard,' and the term is even used as a broad term for the enlisted members of the Corps. I feel strongly that as an encyclopedia article our first concern should be to present the 'real nature,' if you can call it that, of the force, rather than how the state likes to refer to the Corps in its international relations with either the press or other states/forces.

Therefore I propose, first (1.) to change the translation of the term Limeniko Soma (Λιμενικό Σώμα), from Port Corps to Harbor Corps, and second (2.) to change the main title of the article from "Hellenic Coast Guard" to "Harbor Corps - Hellenic Coast Guard."

Thank you. Alector87 (talk) 09:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Nobody has commented on my argument above until now. I am new to the wiki, but I believe I've allowed for more than enough time for a discussion on the change, so I'll go ahead and change the translation on the article. If you oppose this change or if you think I could have supported my point better, please reply so we can discuss it when you see this. Thank you. Alector87 (talk) 13:37, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Someone reversed the translation changes I made without any reply or comment on what I have written.

"Port Corps" is not an official translation. In English the force is known simply as the Hellenic Coast Guard, and this translation is even specifically mentioned as the one used in international relations in the law establishing the force in its new form (aforementioned in my initial comment).

I didn't want to add this initially, since I wanted my argument to be based on my supporting claims, but the term "Harbour Corps" is even used in the official website of the Hellenic Coast guard. In the English version of the page, under "Roles and Responsibilities," when the literal name of the Corps is mentioned the word Harbour is used - 'lit. "Harbour Corps - Hellenic Coast Guard"' (see link at the end).

I've supported my argument why the translation should be "Harbour Corps" in length. Although Port is also used to translate the Greek word limenas the appropriate translation for the force, and the one used on the official website's English version is Harbour.

Please don't change the translation without any previous discussion addressing specifically any argument and why we should not use the term used by the official site itself. Thank you.

Link: https://www.hcg.gr/en/organization/duties/ Alector87 (talk) 06:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)