Talk:Hartford Distributors shooting

Change article to be about the event

This article should be about the event rather than about the person who is only notable for this single event. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 03:57, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Allegedly

This word is normally used by news reporters when a person has yet to be convicted. unless there is some doubt as to whether this actually happened, if the initial investigation is complete, we dont need to use the word alleged. the dead dont get trials, and cannot be either guilty or innocent.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Incident Name

There has to be a better name for this incident than "2010 Connecticut workplace shooting". I suggest "Hartford Distributors shooting", but I am curious as to whether there is any wiki procedure for determining the best designation of an event like this. A quick perusal of the spree shooting category shows that incidents that have happened within the wikipedia era have bland names and often encode the year, whereas older incidents are often "massacres". So maybe "2010 Hartford Distributors shooting" would be better. -Leonard (talk) 16:25, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that Hartford Distributors shooting is the best title. i don't know if any procedure, but lots of spree killing articles don't have the year and use the location; e.g. Westroads Mall shooting (2007), Fort Hood shooting (2009), Virginia Tech massacre (2007), Columbine High School massacre (1999). Massacres are usually determined by whether the media describe the incident as a massacre or not, which is usually by how many people are killed. hbdragon88 (talk) 22:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I propose Manchester, CT shooting. There's some POV aspects to the usage of the term massacre. In the past, Wikipedia generally follows what a majority of media accounts use as the descriptive word, so a later rename from shooting to massacre might be possible. "CT" needs to be there because of the commonality of the name, see Manchester (disambiguation). A similar black rage incident, (Colin Ferguson) was termed as a shooting and not a massacre in most accounts. patsw (talk) 12:42, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree about not using "massacre". I do think its funny that we're too PC to say that any more, but it is what it is. I dislike your proposed Manchester, CT shooting because it suggests that the location was in some sense what distinguishes this event. In some cases that is all we have to go on, but in this case it was obviously a workplace shooting as well as a racially tinged event. "Hartford Distributors shooting" captures at least the workplace aspect of it, so it is nice that way. -Leonard (talk) 13:58, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

We don't rely upon a personal preference but look to what secondary sources eventually arrive at as a descriptive name, and if there are several choices, we choose among them. patsw (talk) 16:53, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking http://news.google.com/ "Omar Thornton"

• massacre without shooting 6 hits
• both shooting and massacre 8 hits
• neither shooting nor massacre (i.e. rampage, slaying, etc.) 494 hits
• shooting without massacre 1355 hits patsw (talk) 13:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Manchester Massacre

This incident is being noted as the "Manchester Massacre" on television and news reports in Connecticut. Can someone please make a redirect to this page from that entry? Thanks. (64.252.34.115 (talk) 00:34, 6 August 2010 (UTC))

I suggest holding off on creating any redirects until we get a consensus about a article name change. patsw (talk) 13:20, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Unnecessary, that's just that channel's tagline for the incident. EmanWilm (talk) 13:22, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Doubt about the video?

Current version:

“ Hartford Distributors claimed that Thornton had been recorded on surveillance video in the Hartford Distributors warehouse stealing beer on a previous occasion. ”

My objection to this change (to include "claimed") is that no one is disputing the video recording of the theft depicts Thornton, and the video is in possession of the police, and being used in interviews in the investigation. Where's the doubt that would justify the above edit? patsw (talk) 21:43, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The "last bullet" claim

An anon editor claimed that Thornton was on his last bullet, sourcing the murderer's 911 call transcript. But the transcript is not good on that point. If you listen to it yourself, when asked how much ammo he has left, Thornton says: "I got uh... I got a lot of shots left. Oh oh." -Leonard (talk) 00:31, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I watched an online video of a press conference given by the Manchester, CT chief of police. I seem to recall that this chief said the firearm which was recovered from Omar Thornton's dead body had eight rounds left in its magazine. Thornton told the operator during his 911 call that he was still armed with a Ruger SR9 and that he had discarded his other gun somewhere on the warehouse floor. The Ruger SR9 is a 9mm pistol which can accept either a 10 or 17-round-capacity magazine. Kepiblanc (talk) 03:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Race labels at Wikipedia

A recent edit changed "black" to "african american" and "white" to "caucasian". I am quite tempted to revert this change because it adds no clarity to the discussion and makes the sentence hard to read. Thornton refers to himself as black, as do other 911 callers, his girlfriend, etc. On the other hand, "African American" is quite popular amongst the American educated elite, although I don't think the parallel "Caucasian" is. Beyond the fact that these terms should be capitalized, which I will fix, I'd like the opinions of more knowledgeable editors. "Black/white" is, IMO, superior to "African American/Caucasian" since that is what people say, including the people in this story, and this is not a scholarly context. Is there any Wiki policy to guide? I've read several articles including that on African American, and it seems to use "black" and "African American" pretty interchangeably. -Leonard (talk) 15:29, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I sensed this would be contentious and brought it up at the Village Pump

• Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#White or Caucasian? patsw (talk) 23:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I've replaced 'Caucasian' with 'white', which is what the sources actually say. 'Caucasian' in this sense is a euphemism, which are generally discouraged by Wikipedia:Manual of Style (words to watch). Robofish (talk) 15:23, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Diction alert

Here are some words which might apply in the article: shooting, killing, massacre, murder, homicide, crime, event, tragic event, tragedy

My own take is that tragic event and tragedy do not apply to intentional murder. It should be applied only when the cause of the suffering is beyond human control, or beyond foreseeable consequences of human action. For example, see the many online discussions on why the 9/11 terrorist attacks could not be called a tragedy. patsw (talk) 23:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Second. "Tragedy" suggests inevitability, and that has the effect of removing culpability from the guilty. This guy knew exactly what he was doing, planned it ahead of time, and carried it out with psychopathic calm. I have removed the instance of "tragedy". -Leonard (talk) 03:11, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Ablow quote

The Ablow quote is sourced. If there's another expert out there who supports a contrasting opinion (i.e. that name-calling or racial taunts is a motive for mass murder) and it can be cited, please add it for balance. patsw (talk) 02:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Victims

Aren't victims' names usually included on articles like these? There aren't any listed here. Writerchic99 (talk) 11:25, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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