Talk:Harleian genealogies
Latest comment: 15 years ago by Notuncurious in topic Re the experiment
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Tables
editUntitled
editA first experiment:
Cunedda
edit| Cunedda | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Typipaun | Osmail (§ 32) | Rumaun (§ 32) | Dunaut | Ceretic | Abloyc | Enniaun girt | Docmail (§ 32) | Etern (§ 32) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Meriaun | Ebiaun | Iusay | Catgolaun Lauhir | Eugein dantguin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gatgulart | Dinacat | Serguil | Mailcun | Cinglas | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Guurgint barmbtruch | Mouric | Bodgu | Run | Meic | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Glitnoth | Ebiaun | Artbodgu | Beli | Cangan | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gueinoth | Isaac | Clitauc Artgloys | Iacob | Catgual crisban | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Iudris | Popgen | Seissil | Catman | Ytigoy | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sualda | Popdelgu | Arthgen | Catgollaun[1] | Enniaun | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Brocmail | Ebiaun | Dumnguallaun | Catgualart | Rumaun | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Egeniud | Brochmail | Mouric | Iutguaul | Caratauc | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Iutnimet | Eiciaun | Guocaun (§ 26) (Ceredigion) | Rotri | Higuel (§ 3) (Rhôs) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Brochmail | Iouanaul | Cinnan | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cinan (§ 18) (Meirionnydd) | Caratauc | Etthil | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bleydiud | Merin | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cuhelm (§ 17) (Dunoding) | Rotri | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Catell | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Higuel | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ouen (§ 1)[2] (Gwynedd) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hen Ogledd
editCoel Hen
edit| Coil Hen | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ceneu | Garbaniaun | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gurgust letlwm[3] | Masguic clop | Pappo post Prydain[4] | Dumngual moilmut | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Merchianum | Eleuther cascord maur | Laenauc | Dunaut (§ 11) | Samuil pennissel | Bran Hen | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cinmarc | Gurci (§ 12) | Peretur (§ 12) | Guallauc (§ 9) | Guitcun | Cincar (or brother) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Urbgen (§ 8) | Catguallaun (§ 19) | Morgant bulc | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Coledauc | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Morcant (§ 10) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The ancestors listed for Dumnugual Hen under § 5 are, in chronological order (from father to son): Confer ("ipse est uero olitauc dimor meton uenditus est"), Fer, Cursalem, Cluim, Cinhil, Cynloyp, Ceretic Guletic and Cinuit.
| Ceretic Guletic | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cinuit (§ 5) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dumnagual Hen | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 'Guipno', Gwyddno | Clinoch | 'Cinbelim' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Neithon | Tutagual | Clinog Etin (§ 7) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Beli (I) | Riderch Hen (§ 6) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Eugein | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Elfin[5] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Beli (II)[6] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teudebur | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dumnagual (III)[7] | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Eugein (II) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Riderch (II) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dumnagual (IV) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Arthgal | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rhun (§ 5) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
- ^ Cf: Cadafael Cadomedd ap Cynfeddw
- ^ The pedigree of Owain's mother Elen is also listed and traced back many generations, to one Guortepir among others (§ 2).
- ^ "Gurgust" (§ 8), "[Gurgust] letlum" (§ 12).
- ^ "Pappo" (§ 11), nicknamed post Prydain in § 19.
- ^ The list may have omitted Guri, known only from the Annales Cambriae.
- ^ The list may have omitted Dumnagual (II), known only from Irish annals.
- ^ The list may have omitted Rotri, known only from the Annales Cambriae.
Re the experiment
editUseful, see-it-at-a-glance presentation. And best to follow the exact spellings as given. The red link for "Merin" (son of Etthil, father of Rotri) should go to Merfyn Frych. Minutia ... perhaps instead of "(§-space-12)" use "(§-non breaking space-12)" to ensure that line breaks do not occur where they are not wanted. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 15:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments. Yeah, graphic representations can be of great help with bare, tediously long lists of names like the Harleian genealogies. Of course, keeping in mind that they are just a primary source rather than a definitive assessment of royal pedigrees or something. It's a lot of work just getting the boxes aligned properly, so no doubt I haven't paid much attention to certain details, but all in good time. Non-breaking space looks like a better plan. Cavila (talk) 17:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- Done (§§). BTW, good work on the many improvements you've made to the articles on early Brythonic rulers. Cavila (talk) 18:16, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the kind words! Very much more to do, and those articles still need to be expanded and enhanced ... work in progress (much like genealogies, right?). Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 14:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- At least one can't complain of having nothing to work on and I guess that (under)statement might still hold in true in 2030. Did you know btw that an electronic version of Peter Bartrum's work on medieval Welsh genealogies is underway? It's scheduled for publication in late 2009 (so maybe 2010?) and will be made available through the Welsh Dept of the University of Aberystwyth. Cavila (talk) 15:34, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- Always good to have premier references on-line and universally available; of course, by then we'll know all there is to know on the topic, right? Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 19:11, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- At least one can't complain of having nothing to work on and I guess that (under)statement might still hold in true in 2030. Did you know btw that an electronic version of Peter Bartrum's work on medieval Welsh genealogies is underway? It's scheduled for publication in late 2009 (so maybe 2010?) and will be made available through the Welsh Dept of the University of Aberystwyth. Cavila (talk) 15:34, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for the kind words! Very much more to do, and those articles still need to be expanded and enhanced ... work in progress (much like genealogies, right?). Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 14:43, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
- Done (§§). BTW, good work on the many improvements you've made to the articles on early Brythonic rulers. Cavila (talk) 18:16, 29 September 2009 (UTC)