Talk:Gretzky (disambiguation)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nom who opposed their own nom. DJSasso (talk) 13:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

---

Gretzky (disambiguation) → Gretzky – Unusual situation, a commonish Russian surname redirecting to one of the people with that surname. It is recognised that Wayne Gretzky is beyond and above mere mortal status and is worshipped as a national deity in Canada, yet all the same, being objective per Google Books, he does not have mononym status comparable with Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Napoleon in printed sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:44, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

• Every entry listed on the page is a relative of Wayne Gretzky, there are no other Gretzkys in wikipedia. I oppose this requested move. Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:21, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose This is the English Wikipedia, not the Russian Wikipedia. Also, as noted above, all the entries on the Gretzky disambig page are related to Wayne. Canuck^{89 (chat with me)} 03:04, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose none of the other Gretzky's rise to the level of 99 Hot Stop talk-contribs 03:14, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Whether or not an article has primary topic doesn't occur in a vacuum. You have to measure what the "competition" is, for lack of a better term. Clearly no viable other possible landing place and in fact, none is even being proposed. Red Slash 03:53, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. I have reverted this recent and related edit that added entries to articles from ru.wikipedia, as it violates WP:D#Sister projects. Disambiguation pages should only list articles here on en.Wikipedia. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:09, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

That is a fair revert as the rules for dabs and surname articles are different, there should be a surname article, Gretzky (surname). There now is. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose, although with the recent creation of the surname page, the normal practice is to place the list of surname holders there rather than on the disambiguation page (which I have done). As it stands now, disambiguation could be handled purely by a hatnote at Wayne Gretzky with links to the surname page and the album. older ≠ wiser 13:26, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Also, I am a big fan of the POV bias In ictu oculi put into Gretzky (surname). Impressive job trivializing the one person named Gretzky that most people will think of. Even to the point that you frame the single sentence around Wayne's grandfather to avoid focusing on the player himself. Resolute 13:37, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

User:Resolute I suppose I deserve that for phrasing of the RM, and deserve it again for not appreciating that sports greats do have mononym rights like Mozart and Goethe (admittedly narrow-minded on my part), but I honestly could not help that the only source discussing the name in relation to the famous Gretzky family was the father talking about the grandfather. It seemed a bit awkward to add "and Wayne Gretzky's grandfather's surname was inherited by his grandson" - plus a usual point of WP Anthroponymy's surname articles is that they describe origins, so you get to trout me for the RM but not for Gretzky's grandfather being the subject of the print source. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Since Tony Gretzky isn't one of the listed articles, is it necessary to mention him (even indirectly) at all in the introduction? All the sentence seems to establish is that the surname existed two generations before Wayne, but unless that point is notable in some way to the surname of Gretzky, I don't believe it is necessary to include in the surname article. isaacl (talk) 15:21, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Isaacl, yes but that's not the way surname articles work, it isn't a dab page - we follow print sources about the surname, not who has articles. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Just because there is a source saying something about the surname doesn't mean that fact is sufficiently notable for the article. What is the significance of Tony Gretzky having the surname "Gretzky", with respect to the topic of the Gretzky surname? isaacl (talk) 13:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose for pretty much all of the reasons already listed. -DJSasso (talk) 13:46, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Djsasso, I see someone who always shows sense on dab and titling issues okaying it and okay, I am happy to go with consensus here. Now I know sportspeople can have mononym surname redirect rights. Thank you everybody. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I am the last person t know anything about hockey, but even to me the name Gretzky has but one immediate meaning. DeistCosmos (talk) 19:12, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose: I concede that Wayne Gretzky is not as well known as Stalin or Hitler, although that's a pretty absurd parallel. Perhaps In ictu oculi could answer this, by way of clarification: what person not in Wayne Gretzky's immediate family has a hundredth as many citations in reliable sources? Is there, in fact, so much as a single person outside said family who qualifies for a Wikipedia article? This isn't even one of those cases where (for example) Boston, Massachusetts has so much more prominence than Boston, Lincolnshire that it's the default. This is about 100% to zero. Ravenswing 07:17, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Well they evidently don't which is why I'm opposing too. Gretzky's family seems like Mondale's - almost the only notable family of that name (outside Russia and Poland obviously). I didn't realise this. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:14, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose per Dbrodbeck. This is a similar case to Biden/Biden (surname) and Mondale/Mondale (surname) where while multiple people have the surname, they are all connected to one person whose notability demolishes the others. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 16:37, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.