Talk:Geomancy

A note

Probably this should be combined with Geomantic Figures, ne? And after twenty minutes of trying to figure out how to do that, I'm still drawing blanks. --Peccavimus 03:26, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree.. no clue how to though! Think any more detail about what the figures are about is needed? Syneil 07/09/2004 19:33

Another note

I have added an original graphic that I created from Agrippa's earliest english translation Of Geomancy. It should be noted that the spelling of some of the figures differs slightly. Is this important?-Chaoscrowley 23:23, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Yet another note

Who's to say that the "misnomer" of Feng Shui as Geomancy is fact? That's a little one sided to say that their idea of geomancy is incorrect.

Geomancy (as the term is most referred in the west) refers to a system of using some means of deriving one or (usually) more of 16 geomantic figures and the interpretation of those figures. This is distinct to the ancient practices interepreting geological features, such as cracks in the ground. Second, Feng Shui isn't geomancy (no on said their idea was incorrect or wrong.) The point is that, in the 19th century, westerners visiting the east chose to apply a western term to a system that isn't a part of, or even remotely related to, the western concept of that term. That's why it's a misnomer. It's the equivalent of calling the hexagrams of the Yi-Ching the Tarot.

Anyhow, I think this entire article needs to be rewritten and I may do so shortly....

Worlock93

Added tags

I have added several tags, since this seems to be written as a conversation or tutorial ("I must admit that I am only aware of 16 such permutations") and may be c&p'd from another site. I tried Googling it, but only found Wikipedia mirrors. Still, it ought to be checked out, and definitely needs to be rewritten by someone who has some knowledge of the subject. 68.57.72.229 (talk) 02:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Revamping the page

Page revamp! Woo! Should we include a section on geomantic magic? I don't feel like it would be very long. Geomantic figures would have the sigils of the figures, if someone could make them. Tascil 08:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Other_forms_of_geomancy

Hello.

"Further, the similarities between the I Ching and geomancy are superficial: the I Ching is of Chinese origin, while geomancy has its roots in the African Sahara."

This is useless and a POV. It should be discarded. There is no certitude. Reality could be different.

"In Africa one traditional form of geomancy consists of throwing handfuls of dirt in the air and observing how the dirt falls. It can also involve a mouse as the agent of the earth spirit."

I'd like to see a citation of this. Can't find anything about it online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.22.73.95 (talk) 00:26, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

wg (talk) 19:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Statements about The Golden Dawn

"Based on this and a few older texts, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn began the task of recollecting knowledge on geomancy along with other occult subjects, with them, Aleister Crowley published his works that integrated various occult systems of knowledge. However, due to the short time the members of the Golden Dawn desired to learn, practice, and teach the old occult arts, many elaborate systems of divination and ritual had to be compressed, losing much in the process. In effect, they had reduced geomancy from a complex art of interpretation and skill in recognizing patterns to looking up predefined answers based on pairs of figures."

This is not neutral, not cited and not even accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.108.162.10 (talk) 20:33, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

/* Geomancy and mathematics *

As the article states itself Arabic Geomancy, which partly inspired Leibnitz was always based on binary systems. The African Divination systems are thought to have been based on the arabic system. Chinese divination systems like I Ching also used a binary system So the part about them being base10 is nonsense. Perhaps this is was confused with their normal numerical system? That had nothing to with Geomancy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.53.210.221 (talk) 15:24, 7 September 2012 (UTC) Of course the use of binary numbers in sub-saharan culture, such as the fractal architecture is likely older than Arabic Geomancy but it has nothing to do with this and therefore nothing with Leibnitz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.53.210.221 (talk) 15:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible cleanup required

I'm worried this article contains too much detail and/or requires subsection-ing in the following sections:

• Geomancy#History_of_geomancy
• Geomancy#Generating_the_geomantic_charts
• Geomancy#Interpretation_of_the_charts
• Geomancy#Geomancy_and_mathematics.

As a layperson, I was frequently unable to determine whether the content I was reading was significant to the subject. Much of it seemed like detail that only practicing geomancers would find useful, possibly bringing it under WP:NOTMANUAL. Additionally, the long sections need breaking up and reorganization, possibly into subsections, to improve readability.

I am not familiar with the topic, so it is difficult for me to say how to proceed. For the time being, I will be adding a cleanup template to the top of the article that points out these issues.

Teimu.tm (talk) 10:46, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Geomancy/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

There are more than the basic elements like fire,water,earth,and fire. I think they should explain this differency.Ageus13 14:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)Ageus13

Last edited at 14:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Etymology of geomancy

Website http://www.etymonline.com/ has the following explanation for its etymology:

geomancy (n.) "art of divination by means of signs derived from the earth," late 14c., from Old French géomancie, from Medieval Latin geomantia, from late Greek *geomanteia, from geo-, comb. form of ge "earth" (see Gaia) + manteia "divination" (see -mancy). Related: Geomantic; geomantical.

-mancy: word-forming element meaning "divination by means of," from Old French -mancie, from Late Latin -mantia, from Greek manteia "oracle, divination," from mantis mantis "one who divines, a seer, prophet; one touched by divine madness," from mainesthai "be inspired," which is related to menos "passion, spirit," from PIE *mnyo-, suffixed form of root *men- (1) "to think," with derivatives referring to qualities and states of mind or thought. Compare mania.

It nowhere mentions any Arab roots.

History: The article states: ′European scholars and universities began to translate Arabic texts and treatises in the early Middle Ages, including those on geomancy. Isidore of Seville (c. 560 – 4 April 636) lists geomancy with other methods of divination (...)′. But Isidore relied heavily ([1], p. 64) on the Roman author Pliny the Elder (AD 23 – 79) and not on Arab sources. Please rectify this.

[1] WILLIAM E. KLINGSHIRN, ISIDORE OF SEVILLE'S TAXONOMY OF MAGICIANS AND DIVINERS, Traditio, Vol. 58 (2003), pp. 59-90 http://www.jstor.org/stable/27832021 --Gerard1453 (talk) 16:25, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

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Tags

The page was cited (tagged) for having "too much detail." This is a tag seen often on subjects that do not arise from mainstream European culture. It is a specious tag which reflects only the subjective disinterest of the one who did the tagging. Bandwidth is cheap, so no article need be shortened if it contains accurate information. This article could go into further detail and i, for one, would find it useful. So i removed the "excessive detail" tag, which had been in place for FIVE YEARS with no comments here. 2601:205:8200:83:129A:DDFF:FEAB:63A8 (talk) 19:03, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Cleanup

Have attempted to cleanup article. If I see no protest in the next few weeks, I will deleted the above tag (which has been on the page for over 10 years). --Louis P. Boog (talk) 21:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)