Talk:Generation Joshua/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: APK (talk · contribs) 02:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Reviewer: HistoryTheorist (talk · contribs) 05:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey @APK:, I'm interested in reviewing GenJ sometime next weekend (or this weekend if real life allows) as I've seen it languish in WikiProject Christianity for quite a long time. This is the first GA nomination I have ever reviewed, so please bear with me and feel free to correct me if I've mis-reviewed the article. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
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General Comments

• American Christian Fundamentalist needs a citation as evidenced by cn tag.
  •  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 03:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
• Did you link to the right article for reference 6? It seems to link to the same article as reference 2. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:49, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Good catch. Fixed. APK hi :-) (talk) 04:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
• Update: Will likely give a full review this Saturday, but I will be doing more quick checks and leaving comments here. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:44, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
• I found an interesting book on Christian Homeschooling that dedicates a good portion to GenJ and HSLDA (or whatever the fancy acronym is) called Write These Laws on your Children by Robert Kunzman. It's a bit dated now (2009) but I'll see if there's anything useful in it. If you're still in D.C., you might be able to find it in the Library of Congress or in a number of university libraries. However, the article won't need anything from that book to pass a GA review. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 22:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC) Internet Archive link
• Update: I'll finish reviewing and adding comments tomorrow. The article is generally in good shape and I don't expect to find any outstanding problems tomorrow. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• Would you mind making some brief mention of their iGovern leadership camps and other civics education programs? While GenJ spends a lot of time and resources on political advocacy, they do do a bit of civics education (with the hopes of producing conservative kids, of course).

I mentioned the ten civics courses in the article and just added mentioning of iGovern camps. Do you think the civics course need to be elaborated? I'm not sure what else to add. APK hi :-) (talk) 08:45, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

If there's nothing else to add, just leave it alone. The sources I read do cover civics classes, but not in any real depth, so you don't need to find the minutae of every civics education course they provide. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 14:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

• You do a very good job of writing an NPOV article, so I don't want to encourage you to "teach the controversy", but would it be appropriate to add relevant criticism? The specific example I'm thinking of is Robert Kunzman's assertion that GenJ "fosters a vision of adversarial political engagement informed by narrow idealogical boundaries" (p. 107 -- p. 106-112 provide good context). Take it or leave it; the criticism is kind of vague and might not be useful. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to avoid direct criticism, letting the reader decide if the group's activities are good or bad. I imagine those on the left will read it in horror and those on the right will be delighted. If you think it's necessary to add criticism or praise, I can try to write something. APK hi :-) (talk) 08:45, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Alright. The writing's excellent for a controversial and I respect that. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 14:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Good work! After you've worked out all the things I've mentioned, I'll check over the article once again and most likely promote it within the next few days. This article was a lot of fun to review (and my second favorite to work on after William Post (businessman))! Thanks for letting it languish! ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
• Update: Placed on hold to address comments. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:37, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Founding

• Was Generation Joshua founded in February or December 2003? Two of your cited sources (#2 and #3) conflict on the founding date. Could you explain why you decided on the December date?

I mentioned on the talk page that it was founded in December 2003, but didn't start activities until early 2004. I think the government link would have the official date correct. APK hi :-) (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I trust your reasoning so you can keep the date. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 15:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

• It was founded by attorney and author Michael Farris, a protégé of Tim LaHaye who also founded Patrick Henry College (PHC) where GenJ is headquartered, and Mike Smith.
  • With the sources you cited, I'm not finding any "Mike Smith". Did you mean to list another source to prove that Mike Smith founded GenJ? Also, I think the sentence should be reworded to make it more clear that Tim LaHaye did not found PHC. For wording's sake, I would recommend listing Mike Smith first unless all the other sources list Michael Farris first. Take the last suggestion with a grain of salt though, you can take it or leave it. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 22:31, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Is "it" referring to the HSLDA or GenJ? You seem to talk a bit about both in the first paragraph and I'm genuinely confused about what org this sentence is referring to. If "it" is referring to HSLDA, I can add a source from Kunzman (p. 113 for my reference) to back Smith's founding role up. Would not be surprised if Smith did help found GenJ though. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
    • How does it look now? APK hi :-) (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

      Better. I got rid of any remaining ambiguity, but check to make sure that the revised sentence still sounds good. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 02:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• Note: According to this HSLDA is a 501c4, not a 501c3 (which makes sense because it's a political advocacy group). I changed it already, but I want to let you know. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Early Years

• while GenJ expanded to all 50 states and continued to assist with local and national election campaigns, with many of their candidates being successful
  • The citations you provided don't seem support this claim (directly at least) but I think you could probably swap/add a reference to support this claim as I believe I read this somewhere. It gets hard when you've read so much on this single topic that all the information gets muddled and you can't pinpoint where you got it from.
    •  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• You might want to delete the last sentence of this section. I don't see how it's relevant to Generation Joshua, but if you can show me how, feel free to leave it in.
  •  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• Overall, this section looks pretty good. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 02:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• While reading the Kunzman book, it said on page 116 that Ned Ryun resigned from Generation Joshua leadership in 2007 due to disagreements over the endorsement of Mike Huckabee and accusations that "Dissent is not allowed in Mike Farris' world". Perhaps you'd like to add that to the article? Courtesy link to the Internet Archive copy
  • I added the resignation details myself. As the core author of the article, could you check that it I followed WP:DUE? I usually don't edit very controversial subjects, so I want to be extra careful. Will probably pass tomorrow or Monday. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 05:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
    • Looks good to me, thank you. APK hi :-) (talk) 03:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

      alright, I think I'll pass the article. Don't see anything else that looks off. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

2010s

• The following year Farris became the CEO of Alliance Defending Freedom, a conservative legal advocacy group which seeks to implement Christian beliefs in government policies. He later played a role in attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election on behalf of Donald Trump.
  • I can understand the context-building attempt, but this information does not seem necessary for the Generation Joshua page. Such information is better left for Michael Farris (lawyer). Again, if you have a good reason to keep the text, by all means keep it ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:41, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

  On second thought, you might want to keep it. Your choice though. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

2020s

• Cawthorn served one term in Congress after having lost the 2022 Republican primary
  • I get what you're trying to say, but the sentence makes it sound like Cawthorn lost the 2022 Republican Primary and then got to serve one term as congressman. Clearer wording would be preferred.
    •  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 06:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.