Talk:GWR Toad

Missing 'Facts'

Two facts that need to be incorporated when someone (like myself!) finds appropriate references.

• Although looking 'right' on a model railway when the verandah end is trailing, in practice I think they were supposed to travel with the verandah facing the engine so that the guard could watch the train. (Having said that, in reality they probably just travelled whichever way they were facing, goods yards not otherwise needing any provision to turn wagons at journey's end.)
• Apparently, following pressure from trade unions, Toads had been banned from main line use by 1973. The reason was that the brake wheel was on the open verandah, rather than inside the van, making them less pleasant to use in winter. (From "BR Goods Wagons in Colour" (Robert Hendry), ISBN 1-85780-094-X, p77). This may help explain their high availability for industrial use and consequent preservation (as mentioned in the article). Think we need a better reference.

(This is being written from memory, as I've only just seen the article, sorry!)

EdJogg (talk) 01:16, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Ed. Yes, they just travelled in whichever direction they happened to be facing. I had a good mooch about inside one a few weeks ago. The 'closed' end has a vertical trapdoor in the centre to allow the guard to reach the tail lamp when running veranda-first. -ChrisRed- 86.141.186.252 (talk) 13:21, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

HMRI law?

By my understanding, the HMRI has never made laws, only enforced laws created by (or at the behest of) the Board of Trade or the Ministry of Transport and its successors. Can anyone identify the actual legislation requiring guards and brake vans? and later, continuous brakes? (The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 quoted in British railway brake van only applied to passenger trains.) -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 16:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Goods trains did not require continuous brakes until very recently - the 1990s or early 2000s, I think; but if a continuous brake were not fitted, or was not operative on all of the wagons, not only was a brake van required but a speed restriction also applied - as low as 25 mph if the entire train was unfitted. Hence the multiplicity of different classes applicable to goods trains listed at Train reporting number#Train classes.

As far as the GWR was concerned, according to

• MacDermot, E.T. (1927). History of the Great Western Railway, vol. I: 1833–1863. Paddington: Great Western Railway. p. 852.
• Atkins, A.G.; Beard, W.; Tourret, Rick (1998) [1975]. GWR Goods Wagons: A Historical Survey. Abingdon: Tourret Publishing. p. 460. ISBN 0-905878-07-8.

the GWR did not have any brake vans in 1845; in 1848, at least one "break waggon" had to be present in every goods train; and by 1852 not only were "break vans" available, one was required at the rear of all goods trains - a second could be used in the middle of the train. This seems to have been a GWR Rule Book requirement, not a legal one. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)