Talk:Freshman

Etnymology

I remember once in school we learned the term came from someone named F.R. Eshman (not making this up) I always thought before that it meant simply "fresh" as in inexperienced/new/rookie basically, but I do remember this. 71.184.110.64 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 05:56, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Timeline

• 27 July 2005: First year article created.
• 1 June 2008: Freshman created as a redirect to First year.
• 22 February 2008: Freshman article created over redirect.

I propose First year should be merged into this article with relevent hatnotes etc. This is because "First year" is a more general term that could be the first year of anything, whereas "Freshman", "Fresher", etc. is a term directly associated with the first year of university. I hope other people will add their thoughts.

Thanks, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:49, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

• • I agree, it all ought to be on one page, but I suggest the other way round - Freshman being merged into First year - it irradicates the gender differences, and, although it is more general, I believe more people would understand First year than Freshman, and understand it refers to university starters. Richard n 16:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The current statement: - "Students in their first year of university are often known in England and Wales as freshers; however, first years is more common. [dubious – discuss] The first week of term is widely known as freshers' week where there are usually no classes and students take part in induction events and fairs" makes no sense at all. Mainly because having worked and attended 16 universities over the years - 'freshers' is the word that is both current and historic and used universally. Teaching staff alone refer to students as year 1 or depending on the course BS1 (for business studies etc etc). Ask a student what year they are in - they will of course answer 'the first year' as this is a specific question. However, at university itself it is known as freshers' year. Also, the term 'freshers' week' is generally out of date now - as many do a 'freshers' month' instead. Freshman has never been used in any recent history in the UK. Currently and obvious because it is not gender neutral, and indeed even prior to this speech becoming widespread it was not used as universities have been co-ed for many years now. So, first year is incorrect and should be deleted entirely, as whilst it describes the year the student is in, this term is not used to describe the year generally - with freshers being widespread. If you are going to include 'first year' then you cannot say 'first year is more common'. Because they are distinctly separate. First year is used in schools in the UK at all levels and also at college. However, at university it is wholly NOT used and therefore should not be used in the same sentence or indeed to relate to each other.

Therefore, they cannot be described as: - "Students in their first year of university are often known in England and Wales as freshers; however, first years is more common." as they bear no relation whatsoever. The sentence should say: -

"Students in their first year of university are generally known in England and Wales as freshers. The first week or month of semester is widely known as freshers' week or month, where there are usually less classes and students take part in induction events, social events, and fairs."

Then you can add "In all other forms of education in the UK the term 'first year' is more common".

The word Freshman is entirely not used in the UK and shouldn't be referenced at all. It is also worth noting that in every university in the UK I have worked in, the periods of attendance are known as semesters and definitely not terms. Terms are again only used in school and college in the UK. 81.110.189.69 (talk) 21:03, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

74.244.166.52 (talk) 19:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC) I think you shouldn't - for there can be different "first years" that don't have to do with school or being a freshmen. Not only is freshmen for the first year of university but also high school and college rambo's revenge74.244.166.52 (talk) 19:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The articles content (as well as the content of the First Year article, which is, almost, entirely the same) mostly covers the First Year term so even though the argument that the merged article should be called Freshman is a better one as Freshman is a more specific term, It would be misleading. Regards, FM [ talk to me | show contributions ]  18:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems more sensible that "freshman" be merged into "first year". Even though "first year" is less specific. It must be remembered that "Freshman" is not a useful title for non-Americans, freshman being local slang. This is particularly relevant as it contains wikipedia's entry about the UK term "freshers". (Protectthehuman (talk) 21:52, 25 September 2009 (UTC))

Maybe First year should be moved to First year student. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

They should be merged into a single article, probably First year. Note that freshman can be used outside of education; in the US we talk about new members of congress as 'freshmen.' As for colloquialisms, 'freshperson' was almost universal when I was in college. Bennetto (talk) 15:55, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

I dont think that they should be merged, i believe this due to the fact that i reside in the UK and i have never heard of the term "Freshman". But could wish to refer to the first year article as a pose the the sland meaning, you could simply mention it in the First Year article but keep them seperate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.127.99 (talk) 20:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I think it can be taken as read that there would be the appropriate redirects. For myself I would suggest "fresher" as a gender-neutral term that is more specific than "first year". (Though I have used "freshman" in an article I have just edited, which is on a Czech university even though I am British, but I feel "freshman" somehow more obvious in meaning than "fresher"). I am glad that nobody's suggesting "freshperson" (or "freshwoman") since it seems to me these are rather contrived terms and that "freshman" is already sex-neutral, i.e. a woman can also be a freshman (just as she can be an actor instead of an actress, a dominator instead of a dominatrix, and so on). — Preceding comment added by Si Trew (talk) 15:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Having worked and attended 16 universities over the years - 'freshers' is the word that is both current and historic and used universally. Teaching staff alone refer to students as year 1 or depending on the course BS1 (for business studies etc etc). Ask a student what year they are in - they will of course answer 'the first year' as this is a specific question. However, at university itself it is known as freshers' year. Also, the term 'freshers' week' is generally out of date now - as many do a 'freshers' month' instead. Freshman has never been used in any recent history in the UK. Currently and obvious because it is not gender neutral, and indeed even prior to this speech becoming widespread it was not used as universities have been co-ed for many years now. So, first year is incorrect and should be deleted entirely, as whilst it describes the year the student is in, this term is not used to describe the year generally - with freshers being widespread. If you are going to include 'first year' then you cannot say 'first year is more common'. Because they are distinctly separate. First year is used in schools in the UK at all levels and also at college. However, at university it is wholly NOT used and therefore should not be used in the same sentence or indeed to relate to each other. 81.110.189.69 (talk) 20:54, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Merge proposal of related DABs

There is currently a merge proposal for Freshmen et. al. at Talk:Freshman (disambiguation)#Merge proposal. This may not directly affect the merge proposal of First year or Freshman but may be of interest. Si Trew (talk) 08:57, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Age

This article should say something about at what age someone is considered a freshman. From the section on Scotland, I deduce that the age is about 14, yet at that age they enter university? It is incomprehensible to anyone not already familiar with the term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.236.72.48 (talk) 07:49, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

German high school

Just to clarify, high schools in Germany are not automatically Gymnasien. The Gymnasium is the academically highest level of high school. It sounded like there was no difference. The notion "Sextaner" and where it was used seems to trace back to the 19th century. --88.75.186.219 (talk) 06:52, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Article not well focused

In North America, the term "freshman" is used both for secondary schools and for colleges. In most of the rest of the world, different terms are used. Wikipedia strives to have a worldwide view, and to organize articles not by the names of things, but by the concepts (cf. WP:NOTDICT).

The fact that the word "freshman" is used in North American English to denote 9th graders, first-year university students, and even new members of congress is a fact about the word. These are three different concepts. The current article is very thin on any encyclopedic content for any of these concepts. The very notion of 9th graders as being in the first year of something is specific to the US, and isn't even shared with other Anglosphere countries, let alone the rest of the world. --Macrakis (talk) 17:18, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

"9th graders" etcafai

afaik, high schools students in the US are NEVER. EVER. referred to as "nth graders." Like, seriously, NEVER. Occasionally (and this is rare in itself), they will be said to be in "9th grade" - usually only on certain kinds of forms/documents. But the "grader" language is reserved exclusively for elementary school and junior high/middle school students: usually 8th grade and below (at junior high schools that go up to 9th grade, then "9th grader" is used, but only 9th graders in junior high are ever called such; those in high school are always freshmen). I don't know what Canada does in this regard, by the way... they might use the "grader" language for high school. not sure on that Firejuggler86 (talk) 02:44, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

israel

As an Israeli I think a lot Israelis never heard about those titles so I think the part about Israel should be deleted. yes most people know those names but never actually used them as they are old and irrelevant. 2A06:C701:4DDB:6500:D46:EBA9:1242:E18B (talk) 19:04, 12 February 2024 (UTC)