Talk:Frank Olson

Untitled

wow, Am I the first person to write into this page here? Considering the ENORMOUS GRAVITY of this particular murder ... this is a revelation in itself. Anyway, I just updated the main page with links to REAL INFO about the case (detail, so detailed it is staggering!!).. but my suspicion is that some busybody will delete this info rightaway WITHOUT CHECKING THE VALIDITY, simply on the ground that it "sounds like a conspiracy theory", right? BUT ... the factual nature of the comments is SOOOO EASY to discover (just listen to the mp3!) that is must be considered malicious if the references are removed.

For those of you interested in the ACTUAL truth... just check the HISTORY of the main page... same timestamp as this hint here 85.197.19.152 (talk) 22:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

FYI, everybody can edit Wikipedia, and everyone who does so (including you) might be considered a "busybody". One does oneself no favors by presuming IN ADVANCE that one's contribution will be deleted, or by announcing in ALL CAPS SHOUTING TYPE that one is offering the "REAL INFO". Thing is, everything involving Project MKULTRA and similar projects "sounds like a conspiracy theory" - and how it "sounds" is irrelevant, one way or the other. The key is to provide reliable, verifiable sources for one's contributions, especially those which might "sound" suspect; to watch and take note of what other editors might make of one's contribution; and to discuss, if necessary, any such contribution that one might dispute - in a civil manner that assumes the good faith of all involved and concentrates on the facts being discussed rather than presumed motives of fellow Wikipedians. It also helps to register yourself a user account, use an alias if you like, it just looks better to have an individual handle rather than an IP address. Welcome to Wikipedia! --Davecampbell (talk) 20:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Davecampbell, Typical bs from this click based forum on steroids! and look I didnt need to use caps to call you out! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.243.58.106 (talk) 07:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Can someone please clarify/clean up the Biography section? (Sorry, I haven't learned to format this in to its own section yet) The first part is fine, but that last sentence on its own is an incomplete sentence & it makes no sense: In 1953, as Deputy Acting Head of Special Operations for the CIA,investigating the use of psychoactive drugs at Britain's Biological Warfare Centre at Porton Down. SLEPhoto (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC).

Kevin Lynch. ALL questions, every answer available, including the name of Olson's killer (rechecking, but think it is absent here) - is available in one book. ONE book. It was written by a preeminent writer on intelligence. The book is: Secrets and Lies: a history of CIA torture and bio-weapons experiments. The author has had direct contact and working relationships with both Bill Buckley and the son of Frank Olson, Eric. Judging by what i've read here it will blow you away. This is my way of saying i'm tired and may come back later but if anyone has a few bucks for the book they'll be the best few bucks you've spent in some time, and also - that i'm busy with my own articles. i want those who have posted here to FIND THIS BOOK. The relevance today could not be more apparent. Not meaning to advertise but FilterThis is my handle on fb and there is an article, heavily borrowing upon Mr. Thomas' work, that i believe you will be interested in. This is not as the rating suggested "low" in importance. What happened under Gottlieb, Lashbrooke, and (Olson) continues to happen today in dark basements around the world - by "friendly" nations, under the guise of research, vindication, and counterterrorism. It is happening right now in that cutely-named "Camp Delta" - and administered by rent-a-spies at that. War is not hell. TORTURE is hell.Krlynch28 (talk) 07:29, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

its not AT ALL clear this has been proved one way or other as "murder", " suicide", "drug induced psychosis leading to suicide", " accidental manslaughter ", or simply "accident" Ooma Huntress-Protectress (talk) 03:20, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Moved from biography

This article needs some attention. I moved this here, it makes no sense and has no reference:

"The explosive nature of the Olson intimations about CIA torture-to-death in Germany and bacteriologic warfare on North Korea were revealed in a German documentary and clearly laid out in phone interviews with Olson's sons (see external links)." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk • contribs) 03:25, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Dubious

The first reference and related claims are dubious and have been marked as such. Please debate here. 174.99.110.64 (talk) 00:37, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

What are your reasons for claiming that A Terrible Mistake and associated claims are Dubious? Have you read it? It appears to me to be a very detailed a meticulously researched and annotated book. DaveApter (talk) 12:01, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

The opening paragraph appears rather *ahem* over-aggressively tagged. It doesn't seem acceptable to me to simply make a claim that a reference is dubious with zero support and then walk away for two months. I'm removing the dubious tag and while it would be nice for someone to get more references to back up the opening paragraph, I still think putting "weasel words" every couple of phrases isn't improving the article. --160.94.47.16 (talk) 18:19, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

• The paragraph is tagged as Dubious due to the fact the fact that it's a "the CIA killed somebody to shut them up" conspiracy theory stated as fact, sourced to a online book. Now, the book was published, but by Trine Day, whose website states TrineDay is a small publishing house that arose as a response to the consistent refusal of the corporate press to publish many interesting, well-researched and well-written books with but one key “defect”: a challenge to official history that would tend to rock the boat of America’s corporate “culture. [1]. Other TrineDay-published books include America’s Secret Establishment and The 9/11 Mystery Plane and the Vanishing of America - this is hardly what one would call a well-established, reputable publishing house, rather one on the WP:FRINGE. Having looked up their website, in fact, I'm going to rewrite the entire lede right now and tag the article. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

So, is the Rockafeller Commission report also considered Dubious and disreputable. Another website that editors of this page might want to check out is the CIA's own FOA page. While it doesn't state that Olson was murdered, it does have several documents(oops, original research/resources)about MKULTRA and Dr. Olsons death.

course as they also have articles reporting "the CIA killed somebody to shut them up" conspiracy theory stated as fact - this is hardly what one would call a well-established, reputable publishing house, rather one on the WP:FRINGE. But then I'm just some freak that thinks denying information that is easily and publicly available is more damaging to the skeptical community than anything conspiracy theorists will ever write.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.135.73.58 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Copy editing comment

Way too many italics in this aricle. Seriously.

--68.59.194.171 (talk) 19:08, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Russians

The CIA justified the program, in part, as a countermeasure to the claimed Soviet effort to create a "Manchurian Candidate."

Has this ever been substantiated? Unless there is some new evidence in the public domain, this justification appears empty. Viriditas (talk) 09:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

"Chapter 3, part 4: Supreme Court Dissents Invoke the Nuremberg Code: CIA and DOD Human Subjects Research Scandals". Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments Final Report. Retrieved August 24, 2005. "MKUltra, began in 1950 and was motivated largely in response to alleged Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean uses of mind-control techniques on U.S. prisoners of war in Korea." 143.85.107.2 (talk) 19:34, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, there's a whole book on it: The Search for the Manchurian Candidate (1979), by John D. Marks, W.W. Norton & Company Ltd, ISBN 0393307948. Valerius Tygart (talk) 15:09, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

its a plausible conclusion Ooma Huntress-Protectress (talk) 03:16, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

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more references

double or triple+ references to some of this information/claims would add to credibility... as would more info in general, including about less controversial "episodes" in the biography Ooma Huntress-Protectress (talk) 03:15, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

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JK

Interesting that Jackie and Caroline Bouvier were there in 1951 and their Uncle lived but a few miles away from the pont st esprit bakery . I never ascertained if they visited 37.169.19.10 (talk) 16:41, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

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