Talk:Frances Sargent Osgood

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Is it relevant to add the "A Valentine" connection? I would edit the article to include the following...

Her name can be found in "A Valentine"(1846) by taking the first letter of the first line, the second letter of the second line, the third letter of the third line etc.

"A Valentine" by Edgar Allan Poe For her this rhyme is penned, whose luminous eyes,

Brightly expressive as the twins of Leda,

Shall find her own sweet name, that nestling lies

Upon the page, enwrapped from every reader.

Search narrowly the lines!- they hold a treasure

Divine- a talisman- an amulet

That must be worn at heart. Search well the measure-

The words- the syllables! Do not forget

The trivialest point, or you may lose your labor

And yet there is in this no Gordian knot

Which one might not undo without a sabre,

If one could merely comprehend the plot.

Enwritten upon the leaf where now are peering

Eyes scintillating soul, there lie perdus

Three eloquent words oft uttered in the hearing

Of poets, by poets- as the name is a poet's, too,

Its letters, although naturally lying

Like the knight Pinto- Mendez Ferdinando-

Still form a synonym for Truth- Cease trying!

You will not read the riddle, though you do the best you can do.

..... but I'm not really sure whether it's useful. Alyblaith 00:43, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

(I've been responding to old questions lately...) It's very relevant - I love how you formatted it... but it would take up too much room in the article. As such, there's a link to Wikisource. Midnightdreary 04:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see A Valentine (Poe)/highlighted at Wikisource. - Epousesquecido (talk) 20:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Expansion and clean-up

If there's anyone else watching this page... I was hoping to make this page be my focus for the last week of January and into February, maybe getting it up to good article quality. Anyone want to collaborate here? --Midnightdreary (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I have been watching this article since I started Samuel Stillman Osgood‎ her husband. I hope to be able to help from time to time. I am a regular wiki contributor but I only do a little "dab" at a time. Daytrivia (talk) 17:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I always watch this page and would love to help. - Epousesquecido (talk) 18:25, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, quick responses! This is great! I have a few Edgar Poe sources so I can add from those - hopefully they say enough about Fanny outside of her Poe years. Any help is certainly welcome! Once I finish bringing Walt Whitman up to snuff, I'll focus on this page. --Midnightdreary (talk) 18:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I found another image here. I will put it on Commons. - Epousesquecido (talk) 03:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Quick progress report... we started at 6,671 bytes in length. We're now at 9,571 - that's a 40% increase! I'm impressed! --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

We're now over 11,000, by the way. I hope you like the new main image. By the way, I think I remember reading once that she signed her works "Mrs. Osgood" - is this true? Can it be verified? --Midnightdreary (talk) 19:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The new picture is great. In response to your question about the way she signed her work see here. I don't know if that helps. I will keep looking. - Epousesquecido (talk) 14:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

The scan of the cover is really bad, otherwise I'd add it as an image here. Oh, by the way, I added a couple poems to the Wikisource page: s:Author:Frances Sargent Osgood. I think I'd like to see more images of her works but other than that, Wiki has some decent coverage of Mrs. Osgood now! --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I added additional facts to her early family background. She is related to the same Locke Family of New England that are related to Dr. John Locke and Rev. Jonathan Edwards. There is a historic story that during the start of The American Revolution, an ancestral Locke cousin was the one that shot his rife at Concord (aka: The Shot that was heard around The World)

Aedwardmoch (talk) 18:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)AedwardmochAedwardmoch (talk) 18:44, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Problems with article

I really don't have the time or inclination to play Dueling Wikipedia Articles with you, so let me just point out the problems with this entry, and then I'm done. If you want to leave errors up for all to see, it's your call.

First, the Osgoods did not separate. I went into all that in detail in my post over at the discussion for the Virginia Clemm Poe page. Again: It was a misconception started by Thomas Mabbott, on no more evidence than his strange misinterpretation of a poem she published in December 1844, "Lower to the Level." Everyone has repeated his speculation as fact ever since, without bothering to check out if there was any truth in what he said or not.

Secondly, Poe never used the pseudonym "Edgar T. S. Grey" in his life. On one or two occasions, he used the name "Edward S. T. Grey" (or "E.S.T. Grey.") And he never signed poems with that name. Honestly, I don't want to sound snide, but how do you come up with some of this stuff?

As I've said before, the notion that Virginia Poe condoned and even encouraged Osgood's relationship with Poe comes from Fanny herself--a statement made long after both the Poes were dead. There is nothing to corroborate her self-serving claim, and simple common-sense would cause one to look at it skeptically.

Incidentally, Samuel Osgood's "reputation as a philanderer" comes solely on the unsubstantiated word of Mabbott. Someone told him (giving no evidence to back it up) that in 1842, there was "some talk" about Sam and his friendship with a woman named Elizabeth Newcomb. That's pretty thin evidence to use to say that someone had a "reputation as a philanderer."

It's funny--modern Poe biographers all seem to assume that he and Fanny were "widely criticized and harassed for their relationship," but the evidence for that is pretty puny, too. All we know is that Elizabeth Ellet said some pretty nasty--but unspecified--things about them both--and interestingly, about Virginia Poe as well. All the contemporary scandal seemed to center on the issue of what--if any--letters Ellet wrote to Poe. (Incidentally, there is written evidence from Fanny herself--an 1849 letter to her mother--which reveals that certain people--including Fanny's own niece and very possibly Ellet--spread some even nastier things about the relationship between Osgood and Griswold.)

I know that Arthur Quinn (whom you cite) said that Fanny and Poe had no contact after 1847, but that's flat wrong. (Perhaps it was a misprint.) All accounts--including Fanny's--state that all contact between them ceased after early 1846.

The idea that there was "competition" between Poe and Griswold for Fanny's attentions can't be taken seriously, either. The only person who originated and spread this story was Sarah Helen Whitman--who was nowhere on the scene at the time--and it's extremely unlikely. For one thing, Poe and Griswold did not even know Fanny at the same time, so how could they have "competed" for her? And if Griswold was jealous of Poe, why, in his infamous "Memoir" of EAP, did he do his best to make Fanny and Poe look like they were close associates? Besides, good grief, if either of them felt jealousy about anyone connected to Fanny, it would've been Sam Osgood.

You also got the story wrong about Fanny's last written word, "Angel." Sam had returned home at the time, so it could hardly have been "mailed" to him. Plus, it was written on a small chalkboard, not paper. It was meant as a greeting, not a letter.

Finally, I really wish you'd consider including the quote from Elizabeth Oakes Smith I provided. Not only is it an observation made by someone who knew Osgood well, but it provides an illuminating look at her character.

Please. Keep an open mind, do some more research, and you'll find that everything I have said above is the truth. I really hate the idea of people coming to this article, thinking it's a serious reference source, and finding all these mistakes. I can't do anything about the untold millions of bad and error-ridden books that have been published about Poe, but I can at least give it a shot here.

Oh, just one more thing: There is no evidence whatsoever that Elizabeth Ellet--or any other of Osgood's contemporaries--even hinted that Fanny Fay might be Poe's child. None. That really is a particularly ugly libel, and should be omitted from this article. Apoeundine (talk) 22:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

It takes a lot of time to read these comments so I just want to acknowledge it quickly and let you know I'll have to spend more time looking into it. Please stop saying "you"; these articles are collaborative efforts between many, many people. If you're looking for one person, contact them directly on their personal discussion page. Please note that everything in these article is verified to a reliable source. That's how we do things here. Maybe it would help if you read this policy that Wikipedia is not about truth? --Midnightdreary (talk) 10:37, 17 July 2009 (UTC)