Talk:Formula One tyres

Bridgestone 2008 onwards

I believe that Bridgestone's "wins" that they have "achieved" in 2008 should not count towards the records below. With F1's unfortunate move to being an official single-tyre series, I move that these wins have not been earned fairly (in contrast to 2007 when F1 was still officially open tyre but Michelin withdrew a year early voluntarily). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.89.178 (talk) 15:58, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

There is a column on the records section entitled 'Sole supplier' to show how many races suppliers have won when they are not competing against other suppliers. Maybe this can be added to, to take into account your suggestion? Schumi555 (talk) 16:26, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Michelin

Why did Michelin stop? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billclinty (talk • contribs) 09:27, August 23, 2007 (UTC).

Article is wrong in saying that Michelin withdrew. FIA ruled that 2007 onwards there would be only one supplier. Michelin either wasn't interested or didn't have a realistic chance of getting the deal after 2005 Indy farce, so they didn't even apply.88.115.39.1 (talk) 13:41, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Why the British spelling of "tires"??

I think that it would be much better if we used the American version without the Y Elakhna 22:07, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

British spelling is the de facto standard within Formula One articles, primarily because of the sport's European heritage. DH85868993 (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

References section

What's going on with the text in the References section? To me, the text for references 9-12 appears as:
9. ^ Goodyear was sole tyre supplier in F1 from Formula One-2009 and Formula One car-tyres.
10. ^ Bridgestone provided tyres in a limited capacity at the history of Formula One and Formula One, then for the full season from 1997 onwards
11. ^ Bridgestone was sole tyre supplier in F1 from 2005-2005 United States Grand Prix and in slick tyre-Bridgestone
12. ^ Firestone was sole tyre supplier at the Michelin races from 2007 European Grand Prix-Safety Car.
Does everyone else see that too? Or am I going crazy? DH85868993 (talk) 01:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

That's not what I see. Mine looks OK, rational even. I really have no idea why yours would show up like that, though it is fairly amusing, particularly the last one. For the record, here's what it should look like:

• 9. ^ Goodyear was sole tyre supplier in F1 from 1987-1988 and 1992-1996.
  
• 10. ^ Bridgestone provided tyres in a limited capacity at the 1976 and 1977 Japanese Grand Prix, then for the full season from 1997 onwards
  
• 11. ^ Bridgestone was sole tyre supplier in F1 from 1999-2000 and in 2007-2008
  
• 12. ^ Firestone was sole tyre supplier at the Indianapolis 500 races from 1950-1960.
  

... with the links, which is the only thing I could think of that could be causing the problem. Have you tried purging? Apterygial 01:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Purging didn't help. But I performed a null edit and that fixed it. Weird. DH85868993 (talk) 02:30, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Qualifying tyres

Done a bit of searching on the web, but couldn't find any info about the qualifying tyres that were used in F1 until the early '90s(?) - tyres that were basically good for two laps and started to fall apart on the in-lap. Anyone recall any details about them, or better still got some references? AlexJ (talk) 23:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks like they brought sets of those to the canadian gp at the weekend :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.27.77 (talk) 05:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Avon tyres

The link for Avon points to Avon Rubber which does not make tyres. It appears that the link should point to Avon Tyres, which itself is a redirect to Cooper Tire & Rubber Company. Cooper purchased the tyre business from Avon Rubber in 1997. BTW, Avon Rubber has several hundred links, many of them are F1 articles.--The Three Headed Knight (talk) 04:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand, Avon tyres were only used in F1 in the 1950s and the early 1980s, when the tyre business was still owned by Avon Rubber. And both articles mention the tyre business, so I think it's arguable which is the better article to link to. DH85868993 (talk) 02:41, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Current Qualifying Rules, and splitting up History

With the knock-out qualifying rules currently in place, the drivers that make it to Q3 are required to start on their qualifying tyres, whereas knocked out drivers from Q1 and Q2 do not. This also allows the knocked out drivers to have one or two extra sets of unused tyres that can be used in the race. While this was not an issue with the durable Bridgestone tyres, with the current design of Pirelli tyres that are less durable to increase overtaking and differing strategies, the extra sets of tires available to lower qualifiers has introduced a significant advantage.

My question is whether or not all or part of this should be included somewhere in the article, perhaps in a section about tyre rules. Another comment, a little off topic, perhaps, is that the History section should be split up. Perhaps a new section is warranted regarding tyre markings, given the detail about Bridgestone's coloured grooves and the current system in place with Pirelli's differently coloured logos and new stripes. This could actually also be a sub-heading under rules, since it is in place purely because of the mandatory two-compound rule (which should also be mentioned).

Thoughts? :-) Malcolm33 (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Profile of F1 tyres

Does anyone know anything about the reasons for the profile of F1 tyres, who could add something to the article? Normally, racers and boy-racers have very low-profile 'gumball' tyres, but F1 cars have very high profile tyres: why? Some things I've seen in other contexts are that increased air-volume allows better heat-retention, and that high-profile tyres are used in higher-pressure situations - although that surely isn't the case here. 94.170.107.247 (talk) 22:21, 5 September 2011 (UTC) Dave

Formula One tires appear to be about a 50 or 55 series tire (sidewall height is 55 percent of tread width) and this is hardly what I would call a “very high profile” tire. After all, in the early 70’s most street cars were still running 70 or 80 series tires and race car tires were 50’s or 60’s. The only reason you think these are high profile tires is because they seem high in comparison to the ridiculously low profile tires that everyone is using on street cars these days - which by the way is mostly about looks and not performance. There is a big difference in handling between a 70 series tire and a 50 but there is not much difference at all between a 50 and a 30. Furthermore, increasing the diameter of the wheel by 2 inches adds more weight to the wheel than is lost in the tire by reducing the sidewall height by one inch. And as we all know, increasing a cars unsprung weight is bad for handling. Also, in my opinion, anything less than a 3.5 inch sidewall height on a street car is ridiculous. The first time you hit a pot hole with a 35 series tire you are going to ruin one of your expensive rims. Back to F1 cars though, one of the reasons the tires appear to be high profile is because F1 wheels are a very small diameter for their width. This gives the illusion that the aspect ratio is higher than it actually is. I should also point out that while generally speaking the reduced sidewall flex of lower profile tires is better for handling, some flex is necessary and in fact a completely stiff tire would handle terribly. In any case the aspect ratio of open wheel racing car tires is pretty much the same from racing Karts all the way up to F1 cars so there must be a good reason for it. Slobeachboy (talk) 21:50, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Records section

Right now, the overall positions of the manufacturers are decided by wins, but I think it would really make more sense to order it by constructors' championships, mostly since each season has a different number of races. Wins could still be a tiebreaker. –Ugncreative Usergname (talk) 05:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Not much of a history

I’m sorry but what kind of F-1 tire “history” only goes back 15 years. F-1 tires (or “tyres” if you prefer British English) have changed a lot in the past 60 years and most of the major advances in tire technology occurred prior to the 1980's. In fact, it might be interesting to point out that radial tires were not used on F-1 cars until the 1980’s, long after they were standard equipment on street cars. Part of the reason for this is that the advantages of radials are much less pronounced in racing tires. For example when using a 70 or 80 series cross-ply tire on a narrow rim (typical in the 60’s and early 70’s on street cars) parts of the tread would lift slightly in hard cornering and this would reduce overall grip. In a low profile racing tire mounted on a rim which is wider than the tread width however (typical of racing tires) there is virtually no difference in grip between cross-ply tires and radial tires. Anyway, early attempts to make radial F1 tires that could perform as well as the existing cross-ply tires were not successful. I can’t remember who made the first radial F1 tires to actually be used but I think it may have been Bridgestone. Slobeachboy (talk) 22:04, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed relocation of information from Pirelli

An editor has proposed that the rather long section on Formula One tyre issues, currently located in the Pirelli article, be moved to this article. Interested editors are welcome to participate in the discussion. DH85868993 (talk) 22:14, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

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Name of the compound between Medium and Superhard

User:65.35.100.219 has pointed out that the Pirelli website identifies the compound between "Medium" and "Superhard" as "Ice" (with a colour of "blue"). I respectfully suggest that is an error on Pirelli's webpage - every media report I've ever seen has referred to the compound as "hard" and the colour as "ice blue", e.g. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. Thoughts? DH85868993 (talk) 21:14, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I have also started a discussion on the F1 subreddit about this topic. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/9ot34c/are_the_hard_tyres_called_ice_or_is_this_an_error/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.100.219 (talk) 23:44, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Found this tyre description from Ferarri. Compound is referred to as "Ice" by them. https://i.redd.it/sug19yuc6xr11.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.35.100.219 (talk) 23:52, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Table is wrong, but I can't think of the best way to represent the table, thoughts?

Currently the table looks like this,

These are the 7 F1 tyre compounds supplied by Pirelli for the 2019 season.

No.	Compound name	Colour		Tread	Driving conditions	Grip	Durability
1	C1 (Hardest)		White (without stripe)	Slick	Dry	5 - Least grip	1 - Most Durable
2	C2 (Hard)		White (with stripe)			4	2
3	C3 (Medium)		Yellow			3	3
4	C4 (Soft)		Red (with stripe)			2	4
5	C5 (Softest)		Red (without stripe)			1 – Most grip	5 – Least durable
6	Intermediate		Green	Treaded	Wet (light standing water)	—	—
7	Wet		Blue		Wet (heavy standing water)	—	—

but this is not stricly true, the above only applies for testing where all 5 compounds are available, at any one grand prix C3 might be the softest tyre, this means it will be refered to as the soft and it will have a red side wall coloured in, at the next racce it might be the harest available trye and will therefore be refered to as hard and have a white sidewall. However I can't think of a clear way to reprsent this information, for now I will try to place it in prose but I think it could be improved, thoughts? SSSB (talk) 12:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@SSSB: so if we are saying that the sidewall colour does not necessarily reflect the compound name, then we need to take the images and the colour column out of this table. Then explain in the prose how the colouring works, dependent on the compounds selected for the race. Have I understood that correctly? -- DeFacto (talk). 12:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@DeFacto:. Yes. I have done that. SSSB (talk) 12:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

And you got rid of the whole table too, fair enough. -- DeFacto (talk). 13:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@DeFacto:, per Mos/Tables, prose is prerable over table and the information can be expressed well in prose format. SSSB (talk) 14:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@SSSB: I absolutely agree. -- DeFacto (talk). 14:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

FWIW, I think you've summarized this as about as well as anyone can. It's pretty confusing and even the major racing publications are struggling to explain it. I'm not sure it would even be possible to do so in table format. Wicka wicka (talk) 14:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Wasn't there also a 'super soft' type available in 2019, with a purple colour scheme? Was definitely available for use in the official F1 game representing that season. 51.52.43.171 (talk) 17:05, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

This is moot as the table would have been updated for the 2021 season where is no purple supersoft tyre in 2021.
SSSB (talk) 18:17, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

History section is wrong

Lists pre 1993 rear tires as 15 inches wide, then states rear tires were reduced from 18 to 15 inches post 1993.

It’s a contradiction. The truth is that pre 1993 rear tires were 18 inches wide. 213.46.66.66 (talk) 02:11, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Can you provide a source to prove it?
SSSB (talk) 08:52, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Apart from remembering it happening in 1993?

There are quite a few sources.. this for example:

https://www.f1technical.net/articles/62

Heck the f1 regulations wikipedia page itself mentions it as does this page we are on now.

213.46.66.66 (talk) 04:22, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Goodyear 1990s tyres

“ During the turbo era and until 1992, Goodyear supplied white sidewall marked Eagle tyres with the sizes of 25.0"x10.0"-13" (overall diameter x width) in the front and 26.0"x15.0"-13" in the rear.[3] For the 1993 season, the maximum section width of the rear tyres was reduced from 18" to 15", prompting Goodyear to change to yellow sidewall markings to correspond to the new, narrower tyres. ”

This paragraph doesn't make much sense. It basically says tyres were 15" in 1992, then they were 15" again in 1993 but they were narrower. Are there more accurate references that say what the dimensions were in the early 1990s? Bobi.1 23:38, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Pirelli

We claim Pirelli have done 410 races, Forix claim 415 (according to this diff: Special:Diff/1049357500) and F1stat claim 411. ([7], as of today). If we can't find a source for our 410 we should change it to something that can be sourced. I don't have access to Forix, but it may be worth working out where the discrepency comes from (I know F1stat doesn't count no starts in this total, maybe this is where the difference comes from, that there was a race Pirelli entered and didn't start?). Until this can be worked out (assuming it does), a footnote might be warranted, clarifying that different sources list a different number of GPs in which Pirelli competed. SSSB (talk) 11:51, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I've changed the number of starts for Pirelli back to 411 and added the StatsF1 reference. Sometime in the next few days, I'll check/add references for the other manufacturers, and also see if I can work out why FORIX has a different number. DH85868993 (talk) 21:04, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

I've identified the discrepancies between StatsF1 and FORIX wrt Pirelli:

• 1952 Belgian Grand Prix: FORIX shows Farina, Ascari, Taruffi, Rosier and de Tornaco as being on Pirelli; StatsF1 shows them as being on Englebert, except Rosier (Dunlop)
• 1959 French Grand Prix: FORIX shows d'Orey as being on Pirelli; StatsF1 shows him as being on Dunlop
• 1959 British Grand Prix: FORIX shows d'Orey as being on Pirelli; StatsF1 shows him as being on Dunlop
• 1959 Italian Grand Prix: FORIX shows Cabianca as being on Pirelli; StatsF1 shows him as being on Dunlop

I'll see if I can find other corroborating sources. DH85868993 (talk) 00:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Tyre Table

The current table presents the info about as well as possible given the complexity involved (well done to all who participated!), but I have one small criticism. The Grip and Durability columns are numbered from '6 Least grip' to '1 Most grip', and '1 Most durable' to '6 Least durable'. It seems to me that it would be more logical to reverse those numbers, unless they derive from some official source, but I don't see them mentioned in the Pirelli webpage cited. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 5.64.160.67 (talk) 03:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)