Talk:Flag of North Korea/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Yue (talk · contribs) 00:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Seefooddiet (talk · contribs) 09:04, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

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Hey! I'll take up this review. Nice work on the article, and thanks for taking up an important topic like this!

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   Some misc comments about style, will post below

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Pending a spot check, will comment on other things first.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Some other comments below

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Feedback

• MOS:SANDWICH in a number of places
• I'm not sure, what are your thoughts on how we deal with Korean: 태극기; RR: Taegeukgi; MR: Taegŭkgi? Is it a proper noun? If so then no italics. If not, then possibly no caps and italics. Also should we use the diacritic? You seem to opt not to; is this because you have a sense there's a WP:COMMONNAME standard to not use the diacritic?
• Some refs that rely on links could use access dates; link rot rate increasing nowadays and these are somewhat useful.

I'll give the history/prose a thorough look soon. Prose is solid and no other obvious MOS issues on a quick glance. Overall solid work, will be a quick review.

@Seefooddiet: Howdy there! Sorry, I've been away for a few days on vacation, but I'm back now. I'll get on your suggestions and concerns shortly. Thanks for taking up this review! Yue🌙 16:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

• Image sandwiching issues were remedied.
• Taegukgi is the common transliteration in English literature (Google Ngrams example). The romanisation is derived from McCune–Reischauer, but like the explanation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles#Romanization goes, my decision for the prose ultimately came down to the fact that taegukgi is more common in English literature. This is also why I did not use "flag of Great Extremes" like the author of the cited source (Tertitskiy 2016), because it is not common nor recognisable.
• I can add access dates after checking the live status of the links; they should all still be live.

Yue🌙 00:37, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Some more feedback from closer read:

• For ref [20], the inline attrib is to Rodong Sinmun, but more specifically the claim is from the South Korean Tongil News's reading of Rodong Sinmun. Maybe should be made clearer inline; normally this would be too specific, but given NK-SK animosity maybe this nuance matters.
• However, Pak's account has not been corroborated by other sources the kowiki article disagrees with this; it cites a 1993 The Dong-A Ilbo article that says Chŏng Sang-jin cooroborates the claim as well.
• Can Lyuh Woon-hyung be described as a "leftist"? I'm not sure; I know only high level details about his life, with narrow detail from misc reading on 1945–1946. 1945–1946 he was center left; his article also repeats this claim.
• A nice-to-have would be more instances in the notable uses section; the flag has shown up in the news over time many times I feel.
• This is a personal pref that you can feel free to disregard, but for ref format I've been prioritizing the use of normal inline refs (i.e. <ref></ref>) and only relying on harv ref format when page numbers need to be cited. Reasoning for this is that most casual Wikipedia users never learn harv ref formatting, and prefer to work with regular inline ref formatting, so I try to meet them where they're at. Uniform harv refs like these are valid per guidelines though.

Verified various facts from refs 4, 6, 9, 20, 21, and 30. seefooddiet (talk) 22:18, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

@Seefooddiet: I will remedy the first and second points after reviewing those sources as well. The description of Lyuh Woon-hyung as a "leftist" was taken from the source given, but that descriptor can be removed to avoid contradictions with other articles and the sources cited in them. For the third point, what particular examples of notable uses are you thinking of? In English-language media and Korean-language media from the South, the flag is often discussed during international sports events because it is illegal to fly it in the South. I kept those examples in the section "Legality in South Korea". I did realise though that I did not mention the flag's prominence in North Korean propaganda; I can add that bit shortly. Regarding your last point, I think we should skip that change just because it takes a long time and I don't think it's worth the effort. Yue🌙 23:59, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

• [1] For verification of why I feel Lyuh is maybe not a "leftist" is this source, part of the series Syngman Rhee and Kim Ku. Shortly after liberation, Lyuh was caught in the middle of people on the left that wanted an immediate communist revolution and the right-wing anti-communists.
• For more stuff for the notable uses section, I admittedly don't have any immediate strong ideas, just a gut feeling that there should be more things given the stature of the topic. Maybe how South Koreans have negative reactions when the North Korean flag is mistakenly shown for them in sporting competitions? [2] Or how the North Korean flag has been used seemingly as an insult for South Korean athletes. [3] Maybe the burning of the flag in South Korea during anti-NK protests? Leave judgement of these up to you. I'll keep lightly brainstorming and let you know if I find something worth including.

seefooddiet (talk) 06:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Seefooddiet: All your suggestions and proposals (except the change from sfn) have been implemented. Anything else, change-wise? Yue🌙 20:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

The Pringsheim and Merkel sources doesn't appear to be used; I would possibly either delete or move to Further reading section. Once you do this I can move to approval. seefooddiet (talk) 20:56, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

@Seefooddiet:  Done. Good catch; I put them in preemptively in my sandbox but forgot to take them out before moving to the main article. Yue🌙 21:30, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Nice work on the article! Approved. seefooddiet (talk) 21:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.