Talk:First Contact (Australian TV series)
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Page name?
editShould this be First Contact (TV series)? -- Chuq (talk) 02:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
- I have to agree--it's a no-brainer. SBS has a long dab page, and the Oz media outfit is unknown to WP readers outside Australia. Let's just do it. Bjenks (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
'Indigenous' vs 'Aboriginal'
editI've invited GangGangQuokka2 (talk) to explain his wholesale uncited edits dispensing with the term Indigenous in this context, and to see whether anyone objects. I myself was always happy with 'Aboriginal' and 'Aborigine' in days gone by, but am aware that there has been some quasi-official authority given to 'Indigenous'. I believe this is a case where the edits need to be first justified and accepted in discussion.Bjenks (talk) 04:53, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
- I see that there is a proposed policy which states: In Australia, both "aboriginal" and "indigenous" are used as collective adjectives; individual people and institutions should be referred to, as specifically as is appropriate in the context, by the groups with which they identify (see List of Indigenous Australian group names). However, "aborigine" is strongly deprecated as a noun.
- That characterisation, "strongly deprecated", has to be questionable in view of the lyrics "Nothing I would rather be than to be an Aborigine" in the celebrated Aboriginal musical Bran Nue Dae (1990)
- My 1978 Australian Government Style Manual for Authors, Editors and Printers gives the following advice: When referring to the first inhabitants of Australia, prefer the forms Aboriginal (singular noun), Aboriginals (plural noun) and Aboriginal (adjective). While the form Aborigine is not acceptable as an alternative to Aboriginal for the singular noun, Aborigines may be used as an alternative plural form. These words should be dignified with a capital letter in the same way as Maori, Negro and Red Indian.
- I believe, though, that 1978 was a long time ago and new sensitivities and modes of expression now have to be considered. Indigenous has been popularised to some degree, possibly from its use in other countries like the US and Canada. But, with GangGangQuokka2, I would prefer to see its use limited in Australian contexts. Bjenks (talk) 02:21, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- I've got a more recent (but still fairly old) edition of the Commonwealth Style Manual (2002), and that says the most precise and inclusive collective reference for Indigenous Australians preferred by [the now-abolished] ATSIC was "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples", however it also says that the more succinct term "Indigenous peoples" is generally acceptable for subsequent comprehensive references. Part of the issue with using "Aboriginal" is that it excludes Torres Strait Islanders, so "Aboriginal" should be fine when referring to a non-TSI individual or group, but not when referring to Indigenous Australians as a whole. --Canley (talk) 03:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- In the context of this article, the distinction looks pretty much fine to me at the time I looked at it: "perceptions of Indigenous Australians" in the lede, but the references to the Aboriginal population of WA and "Aboriginal communities" is OK because they are not including Torres Strait Islanders. It may be worth checking if the 60% survey figure (of no contact with Aboriginal people) is specifically referring to Aboriginal people, or Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. --Canley (talk) 03:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- the context of this show the term Indigenous is what they are referring to when speaking in generalities, only aboriginal when referring to specific localities/communities Gnangarra 05:00, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- While watching First Contact, I noticed that 'Aboriginal people' is almost always the term used on the show to describe Aboriginal Australians, while 'Indigenous' was only ever used once. I believe that using Indigenous as a catch all term is this context is not needed, as First Contact only includes and focuses on Aboriginal people from mainland Australia or Elcho Island (which is still Aboriginal land rather than Torres Straight Islander land). An exception to this may be Marcus Lacey, his father is Torres Straight Islander, however he lives in Yolngu country and maintains Yolngu culture, which is an Aboriginal and not Torres Straight Islander group.[1] I have personally been using the term 'Aboriginal Australians' or 'Aboriginal people', because historically the term 'indigenous' was used to describe animals and plants and later was applied to Aboriginal Australians (compare the design of the Australian $2 coin to the design of all other Australian coins).[2] Also, due to the existence of many other Aboriginal groups around the world (e.g Canada or the U.S), I feel 'Aboriginal Australians' may clear up any ambiguity that may exist for readers from outside Australia, who may be led to believe that Aboriginal Canadians, for instance, are also included in the show and also face the same level of discrimination in Australia as Aboriginal Australians. As Sharyn Derschow said on the Insight episode about First Contact (21:13), the only time that she felt Australian was when she was outside of Australia.[3] 'Aboriginal Australians' reaffirms the 'Australian-ness' of Aboriginal Australians. GangGangQuokka2 (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
- Wikipedia isnt the place for you to write according to your personal opinions. When referring to general information(ie 60% survey figure) use the term Indigenous Australians, when describing community/people(ie Yolngu) the use of aboriginal is acceptable, even then it should be limited with preference for the communities naming ie Yolngu or Noongar people traditionally..... rather than a generic aboriginal people traditionally as that implies all. Gnangarra 02:31, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
- While watching First Contact, I noticed that 'Aboriginal people' is almost always the term used on the show to describe Aboriginal Australians, while 'Indigenous' was only ever used once. I believe that using Indigenous as a catch all term is this context is not needed, as First Contact only includes and focuses on Aboriginal people from mainland Australia or Elcho Island (which is still Aboriginal land rather than Torres Straight Islander land). An exception to this may be Marcus Lacey, his father is Torres Straight Islander, however he lives in Yolngu country and maintains Yolngu culture, which is an Aboriginal and not Torres Straight Islander group.[1] I have personally been using the term 'Aboriginal Australians' or 'Aboriginal people', because historically the term 'indigenous' was used to describe animals and plants and later was applied to Aboriginal Australians (compare the design of the Australian $2 coin to the design of all other Australian coins).[2] Also, due to the existence of many other Aboriginal groups around the world (e.g Canada or the U.S), I feel 'Aboriginal Australians' may clear up any ambiguity that may exist for readers from outside Australia, who may be led to believe that Aboriginal Canadians, for instance, are also included in the show and also face the same level of discrimination in Australia as Aboriginal Australians. As Sharyn Derschow said on the Insight episode about First Contact (21:13), the only time that she felt Australian was when she was outside of Australia.[3] 'Aboriginal Australians' reaffirms the 'Australian-ness' of Aboriginal Australians. GangGangQuokka2 (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
- the context of this show the term Indigenous is what they are referring to when speaking in generalities, only aboriginal when referring to specific localities/communities Gnangarra 05:00, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- In the context of this article, the distinction looks pretty much fine to me at the time I looked at it: "perceptions of Indigenous Australians" in the lede, but the references to the Aboriginal population of WA and "Aboriginal communities" is OK because they are not including Torres Strait Islanders. It may be worth checking if the 60% survey figure (of no contact with Aboriginal people) is specifically referring to Aboriginal people, or Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. --Canley (talk) 03:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
- I've got a more recent (but still fairly old) edition of the Commonwealth Style Manual (2002), and that says the most precise and inclusive collective reference for Indigenous Australians preferred by [the now-abolished] ATSIC was "Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples", however it also says that the more succinct term "Indigenous peoples" is generally acceptable for subsequent comprehensive references. Part of the issue with using "Aboriginal" is that it excludes Torres Strait Islanders, so "Aboriginal" should be fine when referring to a non-TSI individual or group, but not when referring to Indigenous Australians as a whole. --Canley (talk) 03:39, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Marcus Mungal Lacey". Nomad Art. Retrieved 7 January 2015.
- ^ "Aboriginal culture - People - How to name Aboriginal people?". www.CreativeSpirits.info. Retrieved 7 January 2015.
- ^ "Insight S2014 Ep40 - First Contact". SBS. Retrieved 7 January 2015.
Wrong place, and context
editPlease note that the above discussion and some links to it are somewhat lacking in understanding of the history of the evolution of the term here in the Australian project.
If you really want to invent the wheel, or re-invent it, there is adequate mielage in the discussions over the years at https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_Australia - this talk page is not the place, nor is it wise to discuss perceptions of 'ambiguity' here - it is a talk page of a single tv series - the project talk page or the AWNB is the more appopriate venue. The suggestions, personal perception s or whatever of single editors on a subject like the above can be considered by a wider set of readers/editors, and a more general understanding of the process of how processes occur on wikmipedia. Single article talk page discussions on the subjects and issues considered above in the end are a no-brainer. satusuro 08:02, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
Table not showing summaries
editI can see that summaries of each episode have been written, but are not showing. I'm not clever enough with tables to work out why, and I don't know if this is intentional, so leaving it for now - but perhaps someone else may want to change this. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 09:00, 27 August 2024 (UTC)