Talk:End-user license agreement/Archives/2023/January

Expand with...

Also add kinds of:

Concurrent and on unit operation (sorry I do not have time to define). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.169.135.169 (talk) 21:20, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

From the old talk page

The Shrink Wrap License is the EULA. EULA is the friendlier term that the software industry prefers....

The practice of EULAs legality is questionable and is being debated by the courts now. Should the cases on EULAs and their legality be discused here- which would be a huge article or in each case?

Also the GPL is not a EULA. The GPL is a copyright license covering distribution of copyrighted works and derivatives.

EULAs are a sub-category of shrink wrap contracts. I'm writing a page on the legal issues relating to shrink wrap contracts so I'll link those issues there. In general, US courts are split on whether or not they're enforcable but they probably are. Psychobabble

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removed : It is common to compare the terms of the Microsoft Windows EULA with the GNU GPL. to talk because it begs the obvious, unanswered question, WHY? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:41, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

MADZ

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All the documents I have seen that call themselves `EULA's are agreements* (not licenses). Whereas the article says a `EULA' is a type of license. Should this not be rectified. Also, maybe point out that the word has no agreed on definition (and certainly is not a techinical legal word), therefore is used in various different ways by different people.

[* Ones that, yes, are actually probably invalid in many jurisdictions, including, as I understand it, the EU; but, nonetheless, they attempt to be agreements between two parties as opposed to a one-way grant of permission.]

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley 14:35, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

P.S.: In answer to the last comment, "WHY?", I understand that Microsoft and supporters of that company have been known to make such comparisons (e.g.: to the media) in order to imply that there are similarities between the two and thereby imply that the GNU GPL is as legally (and morally*) questionable as the MSW `EULA'. Although I would question whether this information is really at all appropriate in the article.

[* that is obviously subjective.]

FIXME

I don't know much about law, but that (FIXME) thing has to go. --cprompt

I've removed the (FIXME) tags, I don't know if I could have been more specific but the change covers what was originally missing. -- Al b

Enforceability

The enforceability of these license is actually in dispute see New York v. Network Associates d/b/a McAfee Software, SoftMan v. Adobe, Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc., Vault v. Quaid, Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wise Technology, about 2 or three dozen cases where a sale of software is consider a sale under the UCC, and there is much more.

The enforcible in the U.S., if enforceable at all, of such shrink wrap licenses depends on three factors;

1. Does the license preempt first amendment guarantees and other guarantees under the US Constitution, EG; does it restrict your freedom of speech such as in Network Associates where the EULA didn't allow users to write disparaging, but true, things about the software.

2. Does the license preempt federal law EG; Copyright law See Softman V. Adobe. . Remember with the exception of the GPL and other free licenses it is a contract, State Law, as you did not purchase the software- See Step-Saver Data Systems v. Wise Technology, Mai, and Microsoft v. Harmony to see why software is licensed and not sold (To Basically Preempt first sale doctrine and other limitations and exemptions to copyright). Depending on which court the case is heard in the Judge may or May not allow the argument that Contract Law can Supersede Federal Law. SCO v. IBM is a paradox because they are arguing both ways. They argue, not that this is correct, that the GPL is unenforceable because the the FSF through the GPL and not Congress dictated the terms thus any works released under the GPL is in Public Domain through the principles of Latches while at the same time arguing that IBM can not give code to the Open and Free Source communities, in particular the Linux communities, because the contract between ATT and IBM has a derivative clause in it.

3. Does the License conform to UCC or where passed UCITA for a contract.

A side note is that these contracts are challenged, sometimes successfully, all the time.

Also may be a good idea to write about the history of these licenses and also point out that the term Use, as in the AT&T license on Unix is very different on lets say the MS Windows EULA.

Finally, should the stub EULA article be merged with this one, which is not so much a stub.

You lost me there. However, someone should make a law concerning the content of the license. Ever wonder why so many people just click agree without reading the agreement? It's probably because the licenses are so long winded with the most confusing context they could think of. To enforce it, companies should be required to add something like an overview of the license, which could contain the basis, and be enough to decide whether or not you agree.--Dullstar (talk) 06:05, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreements vs. licenses

All the documents I have seen that call themselves `EULA's are agreements* (not licenses). Whereas the document says a `EULA' is a type of license. Should this not be rectified. Also, maybe point out that the word has no agreed on definition (and certainly is not a technical legal word), therefore is used in various different ways by different people.

[* Ones that, yes, are actually probably invalid in most jurisdictions, including, as I understand it, the EU; but, nonetheless, they attempt to be agreements between two parties as opposed to a one-way grant of permission.]

--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley 14:23, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

I agree, this article confuses a software license with the agreement that grants a software license. I think one thing that makes this confusing is the confusion between a license limitation and a an agreement which grants license. A license can be unilateral. Violating the license limitations just means the license grant is null and void. An agreement is a contract that requires consent of two parties. Violating the agreement is a contract violation. -- Seitz 19:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

That is not a very good distinction. A breach of a license will still give rise to a breach of contract claim. Perhaps this is some common law/civil law distinction, but a "license agreement" and a "contract" are the same thing. Second, license agreements can, and frequently do, have obligations in both directions: warranties, indemnities, limitation on liability, the actual grant of a license (is actually formulated as an affirmative act "Licensor hereby grants to Licensee"). Moreover, no legal regime that I'm aware of excludes unilateral contracts (for example, one-way NDAs) mmmbeer^{T / C / ?} 02:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

EULAs as Licenses

EULAs must be agreed to or you usually cannot use the software, like a contract. Software licenses like the GNU GPL do not have to be agreed to, but if you do not then it defaults to 'regular' copyright with you losing all the benefits.

I think that the EULA should be put into its own separate article, with this article discussing software licenses in general. --ShaunMacPherson 21:50, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A license is formal authority to do something that would otherwise be unlawful and is usually used to grant the licensee the freedom or permission to do something that without the license would be illegal. They are a contractual mechanism with which the licensor seeks to control the use to which the artifact that they hold title to is put. Within Copyright law, the license is an accepted way for the copyright holder to grant the permission or 'immunity from suit'(See Gen Talking Pictures Corp v W Elec Co 305 US 125 (1938)) for a particular artifact to be used or distributed without the title in property being transferred. It is important to note that some EULAs are valid and enforceable in different jurisdictions, even if terms contained within them are ruled unfair or invalid.

• It is wrong that an EULA must be agreed upon before one can use the software, because copyright is always applicable to computer programs according to the international copyright treaty, Article 4, and does not grant the copyright owner unlimited rights over the copy owner's normal use rights as well as other's fair use rights. Thus, the one that wants a EULA to take effect must demonstrate that the rights granted under copyright treaty and law already there can be revoked. The copyright owner has the rights over the distribution, but not over copy owner normal use rights. For example, the owner of a book has the right to read it anywhere or resell it, and the copyright owner has no control over that; computer programs are no different in this respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.195.81 (talk) 08:23, 28 August 2006

EULA vs Copyright licenses

I think these things are totally different, and this article confuses them. I think we should have a separate page about EULAs, and devote this page to copyright licenses, i.e. GPL, etc. At the very least I think the page should clearly say that 2 distinct kingdoms of software licenses exist. Trious 20:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

• I agree that, while the two are related, they are distinct. So I created a software license page to deal with software licenses, while this page can continue to deal with software license agreements. -- Seitz 15:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Licenses are subordinate to copyright treaty and law: According to the international copyright treaty, Article 4, copyright is always applicable to computer programs, and does not grant the copyright owner unlimited rights over the copy owner's normal use rights as well as other's fair use rights. Thus, copyright treaty and law always apply to computer programs, unless local law states otherwise, and the copyright owner does not have the right to unilaterally revoke the rights given to the copy owner and others: such a thing can only take place by a properly signed agreement. If there is not such properly signed agreement, copyright treaty and law is in effect.

• As for verifiability, there are precedents from Stockholm, Sweden in the case of parking tickets, though not computer software: Originally parking tickets were issued to the driver, not the owner of the car. The reason is that it is the person performing an action that is legally responsible, i.e., the driver and not the car owner. So the owner of the car, when asked to pay the parking ticket, would merely remark not knowing who drove the car on the occasion. The collectors of the parking ticket then will have no-one to collect from, nor is the owner of the car obliged helping with that. So the law had to be changed, so that it is now the car owner that pays the parking ticket. But the law change only applies to public parking tickets: in the case of private parking lots, the issuer of a fine still has to demonstrate who drove the car on the occasion and issue the ticket to that person, as to show the driver is taking the law in his own hands (by parking on a private space where not is allowed to). This is in practice hard to achieve. - So, as for EULA's, this reasoning does not as such make these legally void: If the case goes to court, and the person claimed to be a licensee admits taking the action of acceptance, the court may decide that the EULA is valid. But if the person claims not knowing who took that acceptance action, like opening the box or clicking the acceptance box, there will be in general no-one to find accepting the EULA. In such a case, local copyright law applies. The international copyright treaty is important, because it lays out the principles by which local copyright law should abide to, though the latter often show discrepancies. But if local law does not explicitly say otherwise, the principles of the copyright treaty should apply. So the normal thing is that copyrightable material becomes automatically copyrighted without special registration. The EULA must demonstrate that this copyright already in place can be overridden.

Case citations

Could we perhaps replace the case/law numbers with links to online resources that have them? The current form is pretty ugly, and many people wouldn't find the jumble of numbers and letters useful (I can't figure out where to find "23 Colo. Law 1321.17", for instance, due to the characteristically awful construction of the Colorado state web page). —Simetrical (talk) 00:29, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I've changed over a few, but there are still some I can't find online. —Simetrical (talk) 01:01, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No acceptance?

"Free software licenses grant additional rights (such as the ability to copy) and need not be accepted to use the software" is incorrect. Read the GPL to see why. Superm401 | Talk 03:59, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

It's not incorrect. The GPL grants people rights over distribution that they would not normally have. To merely use the software you don't need to accept the GPL. The GPL is a copyright license, not an "EULA". Trious 20:32, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to disagree with this old comment just to set the record straight. Indeed the GPL does contain things that one would typically expect a user to agree to: a disclaimer of warranties. If you don't disclaim the warranties, courts will likely impose standard warranties. I would doubt that someone distributing OSS would like to have the burdens that come with warranties of merchantability and fitness for a purpose or non-infringement. Also, the GPL does give the recipient rights and obligations as well, e.g., you are free to redistribute the GPL software provided that you agree to do it on the same terms. mmmbeer^{T / C / ?} 02:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I'll carry on with this tradition and disagree with you old comment as the GPL clearly states: "You are not required to accept this License in order to receive or run a copy of the Program." I don't know what the ramifications of this are, but it seems pretty clear to me that the above quote proves the GPL is not an EULA. Hydrostatic (talk) 06:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Abandonware List?

Do we really want to be maintaining a (potentially huge) list of abandoned software in this article? Granted, theres only one item there currently, but the comment about appending all abandoned software... I can list 15, 20 things off the top of my head, and I could come up with several hundred if I actually looked for a bit... Tel Janin 01:33, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

'Abandonware' section and references to 'Abandonware' removed. While the ethics of 'Abandonware' can be debated, they can be debated on the discussion page. As this is an encyclopedic article, 'Abandonware' does not belong - the term holds no legal weight, and is not even relevant to a discussion of EULAs. It may be relevant to a discussion of copyright, however. RvLeshrac 01:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Rest of world?

What's the situation with EULA validity in countries other than the U.S.? Demiurge 10:06, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

In Germany (and possibly some other European countries) it's not legally binding, because you cannot read it when you're buying the product. 217.233.156.168 18:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Should be the same in Sweden.

http://www.itkommissionen.se/dynamaster/file_archive/020206/6be71e5bf2607c2b0c263d76e92038c3/Open%20source.pdf

http://www.jur.lu.se/Internet/Biblioteket/Examensarbeten.nsf/0/F2DC7F3AF6B93953C1256A0E0057CC22/$File/xsmall.pdf?OpenElement

89.233.241.220 (talk) 13:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

"EU rules publishers cannot stop you reselling your downloaded gamesNo matter what EULA you agreed to." Eurogamer 3 July 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.99.238.22 (talk) 05:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

YOO-lah

Where is this pronunciation occurring? I haven't heard this here in Australia. Jayvdb 12:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• I hear it quite frequently where I work in Silicon Valley. Seitz 15:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard that pronunciation in the Boston area either. We tend to say eee-YOO-lah. I nominate the pronunciation bit be removed. Certainly this is as territorial as accented speech. Mespinola 05:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

• I don't know about that - just a little north, it's pronounced "YOO-lah". Shrillpicc100 (talk) 23:55, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Biased POV?

I think this article overstates the unenforceability of EULAs. A review of the literature reviews that there is little that distinguishes the enforceability of EULAs as comapared to contracts generally. In Step-Saver, the EULA was unenforceable because there was no indicia of acceptance (ie the agreement was written on the box and the user was not required to assent to it). ProCD is widely viewed as the controlling case.

• The latest addition to Software_license_agreement#Copyright makes a number of legal assertions and conclusions, without citing sources. Seitz 15:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Minors and EULAs

What's the legality of EULA's in relation to minors (under 18s)? As EULA's are contracts and minor's cannot be bound by contracts in most countries, where does this leave EULA's? A google for "EULA minor" finds several EULA's that state something like this: " Accounts are available only to adults or, in their discretion, their minor child. If you are a minor, your parent(s) or guardian(s) must complete the registration process, in which case they will take full responsibility for all obligations under this Agreement." But not all of them do that. Would it be worth someone who knows about this adding something to the article about it? Anonymous - 10:55 UTC, 24 Oct 2006

Proposed merge from Clickwrap

It seems that this page has been conflated with the "shrinkwrap" agreement exclusively, when other more substantiated forms of the EULA such as the Clickwrap also exist. A comprehensive article on software license agreements should include both those that haven't fared well in court as well as those that have solved the earlier problems that shrinkwraps had, so I'm suggesting that Clickwrap should be merged into this article. --Dachannien^Talk_Contrib 20:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Nobody had any comments, so I'm starting the process of merging these two articles. A few other articles may end up being part of the merge, and some cleanup will occur here as well. This may take a while.... --Dachannien^Talk_Contrib 17:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

If EULA redirects here, so should Clickwrap. Thanks for your help with this. How is the merge going? —mako (talk•contribs) 15:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that the two should be merged. As a law student who takes an interest in this field, I can tell you that issues regarding "clickwrap" are different from EULA's. EULA's do not have to be clickwrap, and not all clickwrap is a EULA.

We can discuss them as separate, distinct on this page. When there is a full article worth of information on each subject, we can split them off again into their own articles. mako (talk•contribs) 15:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Mergers should also keep Uniform_Computer_Information_Transactions_Act (UCITA) in mind since it is the next version of EULA meant to standardize and reduce differences between all the US states so that the concept of "EULA" can be more consistently enforced. The UCITA significantly affects EULA in addition to both the shrinkwrap and "clickwrap" enforcement. As such, UCITA needs to be amended and ratified by each state which has been a slow foot-dragging process so far. If UCITA does become accepted USA commerce law, then many of the EULA limitations currently unenforceable would then become legally enforceable.AnimeJanai 20:58, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

second graph problems

This graph: "In general, a EULA grants the user the right to make a certain number of copies of the licensed software. When software is installed from removable media, it is copied to the user's hard drive. Without the consent of the licensor, such an act violates copyright law."

This illustrates several problems with this article. The final sentence is not applicable in many jurisdictions, and not always the case in the U.S.72.75.11.113 15:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

This was added by Dachannien on 2007-02-27.

I think it's highly dubious that copies as part of normal, intended operation can count as infringement: this would, for example, make it illegal to play back any audio CD (which involves copying it to the DAC). I'm removing the statement, pending a citation. --Piet Delport 08:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It remains a fact that copying music or software to RAM is considered making a new copy by law. In Europe, there is an exception for copies due to "technical necessity", which would include RAM, cache when viewing sites, and other such copies without which it is impossible to make use of existing copies. However, this is an exception that (I believe) is interpreted with restricted scope, meaning that anything not explicitly mentioned does not fall under it (a la the US Constitution and the federal government's powers). I do not know whether installing would be a valid exception, but it's worth researching. --Jw 14:08, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Is Software Warranty Standard across all software supplier?

Typically when we acquire a software from vendor, its contract/agreement will state the warranty period, but most of them do have the warranty clause in it. Why? Is Warranty standard across all software supply to the market? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.208.242.224 (talk • contribs) 2007-07-29 02:01:05

Proposed merge from Shrink wrap contract

Shrink wrap contract consists of mostly the section in this page. Corky842 (talk) 22:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

• Do not merge - These are very different concepts, so they should not be merged but cleaned up. (1) Shrink wrap contracts can (an are) applied to anything that can be shrinkwrapped, not just software; and (2) Software is frequently distributed without shrinkwrap licenses; clickwrap is different; GPL and other licenses are assented to in other ways; etc. --Lquilter (talk) 07:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Are EULA's copyrighted?

Is is legal to use the EULA of one company software in another company software? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.47.174 (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Copyrighted but copyright does not apply against contracting, so no royalty needed to use the licence, but needed permission.5.47.23.76 (talk) 13:05, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Click Wrap/Shrink Wrap Distinction

Sorry, this is my first time making any wiki edits. My apologies if I broke wiki custom, as i am learning! :)

I changed the Click-Wrap/Shrink-Wrap distinction on this page, which confused the two forms of contract formation. ProCD, the first district court decision to hold shrink-wrap licenses as enforceable, was labeled as a shrink-wrap case. Also, there was no proper definition of shrink-wrap that differentiated it from what makes a click-wrap license. The distinction is small and analagous and I noted that in my changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jn9005a (talk • contribs) 22:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Wall of license text

Would bo cool to know, why all licences are in allcaps and without division to paragraphs and in small window with scrollbar, thus very hard to read. I never read them because of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.25.200.254 (talk) 12:50, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

• You just said it yourself: "I never read them because of this." They do NOT want you to read them. 142.59.78.243 (talk) 19:52, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Reverse Engineering section needs some changes IMO

At some time in the past, I modified the first few sentences of the "Reverse engineering" subsection along the following lines:

"Some software license agreements prohibit users from reverse engineering. Such prohibitions may impede the development of third-party software that interoperates with the licensed software, thus increasing the value of the publisher's solutions by limiting customer choice."

To me, this minor revision makes the paragraph much easier to understand. (I assume "Forms" refers to "[Forms of] Software license agreements." If not then what "Forms" refers to should be explained!)

Note that the current version says "This may also serve.." where I would prefer "Such prohibitions may also serve." While I appreciate the need to be succinct, grammatically "These may also serve.." is correct, while "This may also serve.." is not; "Such prohibitions may.." is just clearer than either IMO.

Finally, "third-party software which .." should be changed to "third-party software that .." As the old maxim goes, "'which' informs, 'that' specifies" Here the we want to *specify* a subset of "third-party software" so we must use "that" giving "third-party software that .."

I've waffled on at excuciating length to explain this, because my previous changes were rescinded. If I've misunderstood something, or missed some legal subtlety, I don't want to make more work for someone. A Bloke Wandering (talk) 03:30, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge with article "Software license"

Proposal: Merge software license agreement into software license.

Rationale: I propose this article be merged with article "Software license". The point is emphasized by the fact that the acronym "EULA" redirects towards this article, while the improperly capitalized "Eula" will redirect to the "Software license" article, which contains very little information. Dominio 09:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose. I created the software license article specifically to make it clear that there is a difference between a software license and a software license agreement. -- Seitz 03:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. I was searching for click-through licences and found the ClickWrap entry in the Wikipedia which is exactly what I wanted. I would not have found it had it been buried under Software License. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.28.13.57 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 17 May 2007
• Oppose. Although I do think that EULA should be made more generic and only have 'software' as an example, not as the definition of EULA (which it currently is) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.78.240.7 (talk) 05:10, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
• Support. From the articles:

• A software license agreement is a contract between the "licensor" and purchaser of the right to use software.
• A software license is a legal instrument (usually by way of contract law) governing the usage or redistribution of software.

A software license agreement is a software license. The GPL is a boilerplate software license agreement. These definitions are similar enough that merging the articles would confuse readers less. --Pnm (talk) 04:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

• Support (I guess). What is the difference between the two subjects? [|Retro00064|☎talk|✍contribs|] 22:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
• Weak support. The current articles don't make at all clear that there is a difference between the terms. Unless this difference is made crystal clear, all content in both articles is suspect of being referring to any of the two. Each paragraph must be clarified to address how it relates either to a 'license' or an 'agreement' if both things are not the same. Diego Moya (talk) 12:27, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
• Rethink and refactor. We need a good overview article on end-user license agreements and their legal status (this seems to be the article software license agreement). This article would have little overlap with an article on (open) source licenses. However the current article on software license is not clear about which subject it wants to discuss. So I would suggest:
  • Rename software license agreement to end-user license agreement.
    • Support Rename per above. Billhpike (talk) 00:03, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Rewrite software license (move some content to software license agreement and vice versa to make it shorter, move disambiguation page like, pointing readers to the right article.)

—Ruud 21:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was No Consensus. For anyone reviewing this discussion, note that there is a bit of confusion here as this proposal was stuck under the same topic thread as the proposal to merge this article into software license. Hence a couple editors responded under the assumption that that proposal was still under discussion. As concerns this proposal (i.e. that Shrink wrap contract, Click wrap and browse wrap be merged into this article), there was strong support for it initially, but both editors who have posted here within the past three years oppose the merge. NukeofEarl (talk) 17:33, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

---

Note that we also have Shrink wrap contract, Click wrap and browse wrap which are closely related to EULAs. —Ruud 21:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

• It's an interesting idea. I'm fine with that. Typical commercial software license agreements are different from the idea of software licenses in general, so I think it would undo the content fork and improve the current situation. --Pnm (talk) 00:51, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I support Rudd's plan. There definitely are too many articles and their respective scope is unclear. I have also alerted the folks at Wikipedia:Wikiproject Law to this issue. --Kvng (talk) 19:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I've added merge tags to Clickwrap and Browse wrap. --Kvng (talk) 15:04, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

There is a huge difference between Software licenses and software agreements. A perfect example is Microsoft. In our organisation we have an Enterprice software agreement with Microsoft. As part of that agreement we have negotiated some significant savings for our firm and we perform a "true-up" every 12 months. The agreement entitles us to access all of the Microsoft software licenses associated with the Windows server and office family of products. Hence in this case the AGREEMENT provides access to the SOFTWARE LICENSE. They are not the same thing. Very different in fact, and they need to be different in order to be able to manage them properly. If I threw them into one bucket how could I manage my assets effectivley?? One is associated with ME, the customer and tells me WHAT I can do. The other is a physical thing that exists in a generic sence, associated with the product. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.39.50.140 (talk) 05:28, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I think agreements like Open License, etc. are a third topic entirely. Above proposal still sounds good to me. – Pnm (talk) 20:27, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Ruud completed the move. It's not immediately apparent that there's still content that needs to be moved between the articles, but I think we've resolved that they'll stay separate so I removed the merge tags. – Pnm (talk) 18:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Oppose merger of shrink wrap, click wrap and browse-wrap articles into this article and (to a lesser extent) with eachother. (Not sure that this is a live issue in light of comment above, but merge tag is still on articles.) These three articles are about distinct methods of contract formation. They don't have to relate to a software license, and often don't. (Many of leading cases are about use of information in licensed databases.) While it is true three topics are related, there is a distinct line of caselaw about each of them that merits discussion.--Sjsilverman (talk) 06:16, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Oppose merger of shrink wrap, click wrap and browse-wrap articles into this article, but support merging them with each other. Shrink-wrap, click-wrap and browse-wrap are all variations on the same topic (boilerplate contracts), and apply to more than just software license agreements! For example, if you have to register to use a website, then most likely you agree to a standard form contract no matter whether you download software or not. Likewise, end user license agreements and software licensing are a discrete topic. Thus, I would support having two articles, one on boilerplate contracts, and another on software licensing. As an alternative, you could have three articles: one on boilerplate contracts, one on shrink-wrap contracts and end-user license agreements, and one on software licensing in general, although the existence of a hybrid article (on shrink-wrap contracts and end-user license agreements) could be construed as a (non-neutral) point of view. Bwrs (talk) 01:58, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

useless reference

The lead asserts '...these documents may be contracts of adhesion" and cites a cartoon: http://xkcd.com/501/ I don't even know what to tag this as... dbw (talk) 16:52, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Ha! There's {{rs}}, but I'd suggest either removing the citation or removing the statement entirely. --Pnm (talk) 00:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.39.50.140 (talk) 05:19, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

EULA of Diablo 3

Can we flesh out the fact that EULA's are not legally binding in most of Europe, Asia and Australia? We're getting a LOT of flack from both Blizzard "fanbois" and at some times CLEARLY Blizzard shills repeating the "it's in the EULA!" mantra over and over again as if it means anything in relation to, you know, actual law. It would be great if we could re-direct them to specific sections in this article that detail which countries it's not legally binding in. 203.206.42.83 (talk) 08:24, 1 June 2012 (UTC) Harlequin

EU court ruling with profound implications.

This ruling may have profound implications for enforceability of EULA T&C in Europe. It relates to resale of secondhand software.

It occurs to me to wonder how this precedent affects other 'outside the scope of copyright' restrictions on sofware usage, for example server CALs, OEM computer-locked licenses and the like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anteaus (talk • contribs) 14:25, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

End user license agreements in medical context

Could someone with expertise on medical end use agreements elaborate on it in this article or in a separate one? (and in the disambiguation article EULA) This in reference to e.g. this Lundbeck controversy?Brz7 (talk) 13:10, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Rename to License terms

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Calidum ^{Talk To Me} 00:06, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

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End-user license agreement → License terms – The expression "end-user license agreement", although commonly used, is misleading and inaccurate as it implies an agreement, even though the user is free to refuse the terms. The more neutral expression "license terms" is preferred. It is also the expression that Microsoft officially defines in the Windows User Experience Interaction Guidelines, where it is clearly stated "Use license terms, not license agreement, licensing agreement, end user license agreement, or EULA." 77.54.108.165 (talk) 10:52, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose: per WP:AN, the article name should follow most commonly used title, not the best advised. As you acknowledge, "end-user license agreement" is the commonly used name. Also note, there is a separate software license article exists for software licensing in general. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
• Strong oppose this article is not about license terms it is about the software EULA thing. The proposed title violated WP:CRITERIA in that it does not indicate its subject properly. License terms exist outside of the world of software. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:11, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. License terms is just a generic term which should redirect to the relevant generic article License. It is the term end-user, or more specifically end user of a computer system that this article is about. Of course, without an agreement, it is just an end-user license, but without an agreement, there is really no end-user either. Thus, before the end user agrees, it is just a set of License terms (for use of a computer system), which is Microsoft's point. Wbm1058 (talk) 21:50, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Rename to License terms notes

References

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Translation

Being the current state of whatever: if there is a spanish version of this article, it should be linked on the Languages section beside, aside (whatever again, please excuse my english). If there's no spanish version of this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.223.89.100 (talk) 05:05, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Delete or keep an index to this subject?

This week there's discussion about whether to delete or keep the Index of Articles Relating to Terms of Service and Privacy Policies, which I created in early August. That index helps readers find:

• this article
• articles on different aspects of terms of service
• articles which cover terms of service at specific companies

Wikipedians are welcome to improve the index, and/or discuss if it should be deleted or kept available. Numbersinstitute (talk) 17:24, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

keep the index buddy - Outrunno

Name change

With the amount of America-exclusive data in this article, it seems like it should be called End-user license agreements in the United States. Just a thought.
I Am Llanfairwyll 17:34, 14 October 2021 (UTC)