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Edit request – multiple issues banner
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Edit suggestion: add Template:multiple issues that contains Template:Copy edit and Template:Story.
Explanation for copyedit: I'm spotting grammar issues in many places throughout the article; it's too often to give a single x y edit request for. Most of these grammar issues are related to inconsistent tenses. For example: "Rodger soon visited Moorpark College with his mother. He became attracted by its smaller size and appealing aesthetics, deciding to enroll." There are three different tenses in these two sentences.
Explanation for story: The prose leans too close to story-like in numerous places; my previous example is one instance. Another instance: "However, Rodger quickly found himself in similar thoughts of loneliness and unhappiness at Moorpark." "Found himself" is unnecessarily flowery; a more encyclopedic WP:TONE is "Rodger reportedly experienced similar thoughts of loneliness and unhappiness at Moorpark". 104.232.119.107 (talk) 07:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 05:35, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
Infobox
edit@Adult Virgin, I've removed your re-insertion of material to the infobox that Rodger was a) "author of the modern incel ideology" and b) that they were part of a movement "Incels". Both do not belong in the infobox as they are original research. Per WP:BLPUNDEL and WP:ONUS you are required to obtain consensus prior to restoring the material or similar. Please discuss the material here. TarnishedPathtalk 01:25, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- it isn't original research
- it was the original description of what he was known for, that someone correctly placed there months ago
- then someone changed it, and then someone else removed it altogether
- he is definitely not JUST known for being the Perpetrator of the 2014 Isla Vista Killings
- I was just putting it back to its original state Adult Virgin (talk) 01:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not original research where are your reliable sources which label them as the "author of the modern incel ideology". Where are the reliable sources which say that they were part of a movement called "incels"? TarnishedPathtalk 03:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- TarnishedPath - While I don't agree with using the labels founding father' or author, there is a general consensus amongst scholarly literature that Rodger is associated with the incel movement/ideology, and is frequently referred to as the first. On May 23, 2014, Elliot Rodger, 22, became the world’s most notorious incel violence perpetrator.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] Isaidnoway (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- Entirely agree. My objection has to do with giving him titles, such as "author of the modern incel ideology". Or attributing him to a movement called "Incels", when it only got that label of being a movement after his heinous violence. I don't think such things have a place in the infobox. TarnishedPathtalk 00:02, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
- TarnishedPath - While I don't agree with using the labels founding father' or author, there is a general consensus amongst scholarly literature that Rodger is associated with the incel movement/ideology, and is frequently referred to as the first. On May 23, 2014, Elliot Rodger, 22, became the world’s most notorious incel violence perpetrator.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] Isaidnoway (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not original research where are your reliable sources which label them as the "author of the modern incel ideology". Where are the reliable sources which say that they were part of a movement called "incels"? TarnishedPathtalk 03:16, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
Referring to Elliot Rodger as the "Founding Father of the incel ideology" in the infobox
editShould Elliot Rodger be referred to as the "Founding Father of the incel ideology" or similar in the infobox? TarnishedPathtalk 07:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
Polling
edit- He's not a monolith. Whatever happened to going Sodini? 2D Is Better Than 3D (talk) 09:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- No to founding father, but I would support something along the lines of first known or first recognized as more neutral and clinical. Rodger has become a celebrated figure and martyr among the incel community for committing the first known incel-based attack.[10] The manifesto published by the first recognised incel attacker, Elliot Rodger in 2014.[11] The Isla Vista attack is recognized as the pivotal moment where misogynist incels coalesced as a movement.[12] Incel ideology has been linked to dozens of murders and assaults over the past decade, the most prominent one involving Elliot Rodger.[13] Isaidnoway (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- No: While there are reliable sources which refer to Rodger as the "founding father", they are small in number and appear to be mostly quoting others. It would therefore be WP:UNDUE to call Rodger the "founding father of incel ideology" in Wikivoice in the infobox. TarnishedPathtalk 09:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
Yes, or something similar- he's definitely definitely not JUST known for being the Perpetrator of the Isla Vista Killings, that's downright stupid
- he was referred to as the author of the incel ideology in the infobox for months before someone tampered with it
- I can provide several reliable sources that refer to him in a similar way if I must
lets leave it how it was Adult Virgin (talk) 11:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)sock strike
- No, it's simply not true.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
edit- Comment: Please note that this was discussed above at Talk:Elliot Rodger#Infobox. TarnishedPathtalk 07:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
well even if he can't be referred to as the founding father, he can definitely be referred to as the author Adult Virgin (talk) 11:50, 24 July 2024 (UTC)sock strike- Reliable sources, that refer to him as the "author" of "incel ideology"? Or is this just your opinion? TarnishedPathtalk 12:24, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- TarnishedPath, since this RfC was prompted by a dispute with a sockpuppet, maybe we don't need to continue it? If you agree, you can withdraw it. See WP:RFCEND #1. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:30, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Firefangledfeathers, a good suggestion. When I started the RfC I predicted entrenched disagreement and didn't imagine that they would be identified as a sockpuppet. TarnishedPathtalk 23:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
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