Talk:Egg cream

Jewish origins

This was invented in 19th century New York...how could it be a Jewish ethnic food? Just because there are a lot of Jewish people in Brooklyn, where it started, or that it exists in modern Israel? Was that listing an act of vandalism? Kaz 15:37, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC) particularly silly comment...most jewish food was created in non-jewish countries....fact is many jews regard egg-creams as somewhat jewish and do not regard other soft-drinks as such. the connection is Russian jews bringing seltzer to the states

I disagree it is a "Jewish ethnic food." Unless there is some strange egg cream history I'm not aware of, there is no connection to Jewish ethnicity or religion. In fact, it was served as drug stores ("candy stores") with fountains, and could not be served at the once ubiquitous Jewish delis, becuase it contains dairy. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 17:58, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OK, I agree...I'm gonna delete the ethnic food reference, if someone has more info they can always put it back...Kaz 03:12, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My family experience is that it is a "Brooklyn Jewish" drink. Despite growing up in the Brooklyn area and just knowing it as a drink from the corner store, for some reason the only people who share my fond memories of it are other New York Jews. Is "New York Jew" an acceptable sub-ethnicity? We are a distinctive group, after all. :D ~ ---

Anyone Tasted One?

OK, has anyone ever actually tasted one? I mean, it's supposed to have been the finest drink known to man. Is this just because the standards were so much lower, as with Chaplin movies being brilliant back then but WAY over-rated by modern standards, or maybe it's because this was the best liquid delivery system for the addictive substance "chocolate", or was it really that good? It sounds pretty overblown...I mean, a tiny bit of chocolate syrup and milk mixed with seltzer water? Nectar of the gods? Kaz 03:17, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You don't have to be a geezer to drink 'em. They serve them at Canter's in Los Angeles. It's just chocolate soda, almost a little bit sharp b/c of the seltzer. I'm not saying it's the world's greatest drink, but there is something addictive about 'em. Damn. Now I want one, too. jengod 18:28, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

Your whole rant seems completely bizarre to me. You do know that chocolate is a generic term that doesn't need to be put in quotation marks, right? Because if that's an attempt at humor . . . I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just don't get the joke. And the comment about Chaplin movies seems completely out of left field. (By the way, I like Chaplin movies, but that's beside the point.) And what is your source material, Kaz, that an egg cream is supposed to be not only the finest drink known to man, but also the nectar of the gods? Is it the same source material that told you that an egg cream is some obscure drink that hasn't existed for generations? I live in a mid-size town and, just off the top of my head, I can think of at least three local restaurants that serve this drink. -- Minaker

Geezers? Is this flamebait? Anyway, one hardly needs to be old to have tried one of these – you can find them at any ice cream shop or soda fountain in New York City. (I practically lived on them when I was in NYC in the middle of a hot July – 90°+ and humid. I can see why egg creams are so popular there.) Outside of NYC, they're harder to come by – they're part of the regional cuisine, really. Peter G Werner 20:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

They sound completely disgusting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.161.214.82 (talk) 16:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

At first glance they do sound sort of odd, but they really are very good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.254.165.190 (talk) 20:54, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually they're far from disgusting. And Peter G Werner is right; they are hard to come by outside of New York City, or at least the New York Metropolitan Area. Even the bottled ones you find in stores can't be found elsewhere. I tried to buy one at a beverage store in Florida some 20-odd years ago, because I had a craving for one. As I left, somebody in the place raced out the door to tell me about a restaurant nearby that made them, although the used Sprite rather than seltzer. Sadly, that restaurant is closed now. And like jengod, I'm starting to want one as well. I've got to get the ingredients at a supermarket or department store soon. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:40, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Authentic NY Egg Cream

I grew up in NY, and every Sunday, my grandmother would walk me down to the corner stationery store (which had a soda fountain) and buy me an egg cream. Last month I travelled back to NY, and the store is still there. The current owner was once a customer, and was restoring the shop to the way it was in the 60s (including original counter, stools, fixtures, etc.)

He also had the Egg Cream recipe, which he had inherited from the original owners, and was kind enough to make me one AND share the recipe!

Here goes:

• Cup of chilled whole milk - the colder, the better
• Seltzer water
• Shot of either Vanilla or Chocolate syrup (these were the two standard flavors)

Combine the syrup with the chilled milk and whip in a blender or milkshake mixer. Pour into a glass and add the seltzer water. Stir.

After years of trying "bottled" Egg Creams, I had completely forgotten that the straw is supposed to stand up, and that this only happens when you whip the milk & syrup.

Of course, even with the recipe, they still taste better from the soda fountain! Charlie 22:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

How much seltzer do add?--Witeandnerdy 01:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This all depends on taste. When the new owner made one for me, he started with a half-glass of cold milk, and a shot of Vanilla syrup. (I think he used the Torani Vanilla -- but not the French Vanilla). After pouring it into a metal milkshake-mixer and whipping it, he poured it back into the glass. Tipping the glass, he slowly poured seltzer into the mix, allowing the foam to subside as he filled.

Charlie 00:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Try using 1/2 & 1/2 or heavy cream instead of milk, an egg, chocolate syrup or baking chocolate powder, Put it in a blender & pour the mix into glasses & add a cola to stir in. Used to use Crystal Pepsi.

Hey Arnold Inaccuracy

Stevekent! seems to have written in a pop culture reference to Coach Wittenberg building a robot to make egg creams because he loved them so much. I can't seem to find a Hey Arnold episode guide, but I am very sure that he means to reference an episode where Arnold saves the life of a millionaire. This millionaire man is the one who loves egg creams and has a robot ("Mr. Egg Cream") that builds them. I do not remember the name of this millionaire! I am leaving this note here so that someone can perhaps verify that I am correct. smartperson 04:46, 19 May 2006

Other kinds of egg creams?

Is an egg cream always a chocolate egg cream, by definition? If there is a such thing as non-chocolate egg creams, that should probably be mentioned.

Chocolate sodas are sadly unpopular in the western states. When you do find one in an obscure 50s style diner, it's always refurred to as Chocolate Cola & is made with cola instead of seltzer water. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.77.255 (talk) 22:48, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

   Ah, Way Out West, where the men are men, and only the women forgo reapplying fur to their beverages!
--Jerzy•t 15:03, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Something about the history of this beverage would be good too. I've often wondered if it was in any way related to a Vietnamese beverage, soda sua hot ga, a soda water- and milk-based drink that actually includes an egg yolk. Peter G Werner 20:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

REAL Authentic New York Egg Cream

Way back in the mists of time, I was employed for a summer at Klug's Candy Store and was taught the art of the Egg Cream by Reuben Klug himself, the self titled 'Master of the Egg Cream', a subject on which he was nothing short of fanatical. The store was at 65-60 Myrtle Ave. Glendale, NY

According to Reuben, the 'Egg' was 'ech' which he rendered as meaning 'fresh'. The essence and absolute sine qua non of the egg cream is the head, formed of trillions (or maybe only thousands) of teensy milk/seltzer bubbles. The resemblance to cream rising to the top of freshly obtained milk was supposedly the origin of the name. Ech (fresh) cream = Egg Cream.

Here is Reuben's recipe:

Take one bell mouthed 'coke' glass - this is essential to proper head formation.

Pour in cold milk up to a smidgen above where the curve starts.

Apply the seltzer (from a soda fountain spritzer - not a bottle) to form the white head. This must be done in such a way as to bring the head to exactly the top of the glass without spilling over. Note that this is BEFORE adding the chocolate. If you add the chocolate first you get a pale brown head with enormous gooey bubbles - wrong!

Add two long pulls on the chocolate syrup dispenser (New York's own Fox's U-Bet of course). Thse must go straight down through the head. Why? Getting chocoloate on the side of the glass is wasteful and unattractive and you want to be able to stir the chocolate with a minimum of damage to the head.

If you did the chocolate right, you should see a small chocolate spot in the middle of the head and the chocolate in the bottom middle of the glass. Insert a long handled spoon through the chocolate spot and stir vigorously in TINY circles.

The result - if you did it right - the most magnificient creation of man in all of the history of the world - the Authentic New York Egg Cream.

--SIngleDouble 20:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

SIngleDouble is Absolutely Correct about the Process  !

I was raised in NYC and the egg cream was my drink of choice, generally made at a soda fountain right before my eyes as I sat at the counter and watched. I have been making egg creams at home, as well teaching others to do it, since the early 70's. I haven't found anyone who doesn't like a properly-made egg cream, but making it properly is a bit of a trick. I have maintained my recipe online since at least 2001, which emphasizes the order of operations as critical to the final result, almost exactly as SD describes above. I've edited the main page to link to that recipe, as well as added a theory of the name derivation which is based on French rather than Yiddish.

Also, IMO the main page sounds too much like a Fox's U-Bet commercial, does anyone agree? The syrup used, in my opinion, is far less important than the process used to get the correct result. When I can't get Fox's I can still make a great egg cream. Two links to their site at the end seems redundant to me.

Badboy2k 18:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

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Danny Phantom

the cartoon Danny Phantom on Nickelodian has an episode where a ghost from the 50's gets out and takes over his body. There are multiple references to "egg cream" during the episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.75.51 (talk) 04:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Speaking As A Brooklynite of the 1950s and '60s...

There was an incredible amount of variation in assembling an egg cream from candy store to candy store. The place where I mostly hung out and consumed the majority of my egg creams did it thusly:

1. Using the bell-mouth Coke glass 2. Add approximately 2" of chocolate syrup first 3. Add approximately 1" of ice cold milk second 4. Add seltzer to fill, spraying it over the back of a spoon held over the glass, then stir several times with said spoon, in order to obtain the necessary white, frothy head.

To my mind, the only "definitive" things about an authentic Brooklyn egg cream are the ingredients: 1) Fox's U-Bet chocolate syrup, 2) ice-cold whole milk, and 3) ice-cold seltzer (NEVER club soda!). How they were assembled, as I mentioned above, was a matter of personal preference of the soda jerk making the egg cream. Also, in my part of Brooklyn, a vanilla "egg cream" was an object of derision. A true egg cream could contain only chocolate syrup...anything else was not only fake, it bordered on blasphemous! AnClarTex 01:37, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

U-Bet vs. YooHoo

I've always wondered whether the YooHoo (a bottled chocolate soda vaguely reminiscent of an egg cream only not as good) was named in an attempt to evoke Fox's U-Bet syrup. Anyone know? Briankharvey (talk) 13:02, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

Too much speculation

This article has problems. It goes from basically telling us that no one knows why it's called an egg cream, as it has no egg in it, to compiling every speculation on the subject that any wiki-editor felt like sharing. The article would probably be vastly improved by removing all speculation. An alternative would be to find a credible source to identify the most commonly held folk-etymological belief on the topic. zadignose (talk) 02:28, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

The OTHER egg cream

Where should documented information about a drink called an "egg cream" which preceded the New York version be placed? In the egg cream article? In a new and separate article?

69.228.36.17 (talk) 02:11, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• I don't understand what I should be weighing in on. RfCs need to be short and to the point. MQoS (talk) 12:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• That is a separate topic, which doesn't belong in this article. Please review Wikipedia's Notability Guideline and consider whether this other topic warrants its own separate article. I doubt that it does, but if I'm wrong, it would be great to have an article about it. SPECIFICO talk 16:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

About the other egg cream

(Sorry all this ended up attached to my RFC above - I'd never done one and thought only the query would be passed on)

It is well-documented that a drink called an "egg cream", made with both cream and eggs, existed from at least 1850 into the twentieth century. Whether or not one chooses to speculate that this was the drink that developed into the New York egg cream, is it unreasonable to think that anyone researching the latter would want to know that the earlier "egg cream" existed? At the least, it should be possible to indicate that, beyond the more well-known New York egg cream, there was another drink by that name. Certainly this would seem the logical place to put that information. One could, I suppose, create a separate article for the nineteenth century egg cream, but first of all, what would you call it? The drink was, plain and simple, called "egg cream". What's more, I'm reasonably sure that people would quickly comment that such an article should be redirected to this one - which it should be.

As it is, I added some information on the earlier egg cream, complete with references to the works that mention them, only to have every mention of that drink wiped out.

If anyone wants to read the deleted additions, they are in this version: https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Egg_cream&diff=next&oldid=674588433

Certainly, there are no clear indications of its becoming the New York version, but nor is there a single footnote for the claim that Auster invented it; to the contrary, his nephew is quoted as saying "the origins of the name are lost in time". The 1885 milk shake claim and the Boris Thomashefsky stories contradict each other, yet both are included. And if you're going to include speculation that a milk shake with eggs and cream was the original egg cream, why is it any less credible to suggest that a drink actually called "egg cream" which included both was instead?

The fact is, everything about this subject is speculative. There IS no hard evidence of the origin of the New York version. But at least letting people know there was an earlier drink by that name would give them another trail to follow up on. And again, if you're don't put information about a drink called an "egg cream" here, where would you put it?

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Anyone have any idea why we're using a link on the Internet Archive when a live page has the same recipe from the same source but is actually maintained and updated by the parent company of the business that posted the recipe in the first place?

RECREATE OUR FAMOUS EGG CREAM SODA (From Gold's Pure Foods, current owners of the Fox's Syrups brand) — Preceding unsigned comment added by HomerNet (talk • contribs) 14:58, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

°== U-Bet ==

A blog is not RS for historical fact. SPECIFICO talk 02:48, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. U-Bet seems to be considered "canonical" by New Yorkers, but we need better sources for that. It also doesn't seem that a specific brand belongs in the lead. It can be discussed in the body of the article. --Macrakis (talk) 12:27, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Ina Garten is as canonical as it gets. https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ina-garten/new-york-egg-cream-recipe-2120619

Or a history of the soda fountain published by Random House. https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=tdAPAgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=u-bet+%22egg+cream%22&ots=gCtbPv0-GS&sig=XqHX9TuRIEJHkSDfBCubqoRHXx4#v=onepage&q=u-bet%20%22egg%20cream%22&f=false Bellagio99 (talk) 13:57, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Neither is RS for historical fact. Contemporary recipes often mention that brand, but that is a different matter. Further, the historic supplier of bulk syrups to fountains is not addressed. Fountains did not use retail packages of syrups. SPECIFICO talk 14:13, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I wish you well. I have to deal with my cancer, heart, and kidney issues--can't spend more time debating the obvious.Bellagio99 (talk) 14:18, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

That's really manipulative comment. Though of course we all wish you well, giving your health issues as a reason for disengaging from a dispute you've involved yourself in is unfair to the other editors, and "debating the obvious" is not a helpful argument.

Back to substance.

I agree with SPECIFICO that Ina Garten (or any other contemporary cookbook) is a pretty poor source for history. See the food sources page.

On the other hand, the History of the Soda Fountain is at first glance a reasonable source. So why don't you add it? Even better if we find multiple sources pointing in the same direction. --Macrakis (talk) 19:25, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

History of the soda fountain is a contemporary book, written by a young Brooklyn resident whose only apparent qualification is that he opened a "retro" soda fountain in 2010. From the 1970's onward, Fox's may have been heavily promoted and appears to have been adopted by certain egg cream afficionados as the syrup of choice. But as far as I can tell there's no source that connects the current-day brand, even if the company's predecessor dates from 1900, with the origin or predominant ingredient in the hay day of egg creams. These drinks were made at neighorhood "candy stores" that also carried newspapers and light groceries such as canned staples, dairy products, and fresh bread. The seltzer was drawn from a barrel or tank beneath the counter and came out of a spigot alongside branded drinks such as Coca Cola and 7-up. The syrup came out of a hand pump that drew on a large container of the stuff. There were other flavorings such as vanilla, strawberry, and the flavors one might expect for carbonated drinks, ice cream sodas or milkshakes. There were not bottles of U-Bet on the counter. That's OR, but I don't think anyone who was around at the time will dispute it. Unfortunately we need an older source, which may not be digitized, or we need a very old man or woman who has made authoritative statements. SPECIFICO talk 20:21, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

There isn't just one answer. U-Bet seems to be the most popular syrup for home recipes today (and that should be pretty easy to find RS for).

Do modern soda fountains use U-Bet? I don't know, but that should be possible to establish, too. What was used in the past? I don't know, and it will be interesting to see if we can find RS for it.

"The best is the enemy of the good" -- we can include information about modern home use without knowing the answer to historical commercial use. And RS don't have to be reference works -- if novels from the 1970's name U-Bet as canonical, that's useful, even if they're primary sources. We just need to be clear in our wording. --Macrakis (talk) 21:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

The novels might be good for the U-bet article, which is weakly sourced. SPECIFICO talk 23:58, 15 September 2020 (UTC)