Talk:Dorin Tudoran

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Is he actually American? Dahn 10:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

You mean, is he a naturalized American citizen? I don't know -- I'd assume so (after all those years in the U.S.), but it's hard to tell. Turgidson 17:54, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm a bit unsure about the "American something" categories. Shouldn't these apply only if he is a USian? Dahn 18:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I've asked myself this kind of question many times, since it's almost impossible to know for sure (with just a few exceptions) whether an immigrant is a just resident of a country or a naturalized citizen. That's why I never put a cat like, say, "Romanian-American", unless that's completely clear. But that's more of a legal definition, I think, wheareas when talking about, say "American journalist", that can be interpreted a bit more loosely -- for example, as journalists having lived for a while (eg, a couple of decades) in the US. Take a look if you wish at Dan-Virgil Voiculescu, Valentin Poénaru, and Preda Mihăilescu as just a few more examples where similar standards I think have been applied. On the other hand, Andrei Șerban is listed as Romanian-American, so presumably a naturalized U.S. citizen, of which I am about 95% sure, but how can one be 100% sure? Turgidson 19:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Hm. I tend to avoid categorizing residents as "[something]ian", since that easily leads to confusion (I remember there was this guy, who still leaves some insults on my page now and then, and who turned all Romanian residents of x country into "xians" and "Romanian-xians", presumably in a drive to artificially increase the number of Romanians in the diaspora - it was very difficult to sort them, and we now have cats for Romanian expats as a result of that). There are ways to find out these people's status, who seem to pop up now and again (we may find some for both Tudoran and Şerban - in the meantime, I suggest using the expat cat and dropping the "American" ones for Tudoran; as for Şerban, I think you were right to add the "American" cats, since I'm just as sure they do apply there. Dahn 19:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Btw, I found a bit more detail here, though nothing clear-cut (we may use it for sourcing the article, though). Dahn 19:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Confirmation that Şerban is American: here. Dahn 19:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Good catch on Şerban -- that's the sort of definitive confirmation (from a first-rate source) that's hard to come by, in general. As for that guy putting randomly people as "[something]ian", was that country the big one up above the US? I've had a somewhat similar experience, too, with some guy who kept insisting that Moisil was from there (!) Now, about Tudoran: the cats look more-or -less OK to me. Maybe "American academics" could go for now (since that's only a marginal one); the one about public radio I'm neutral (I almost never listen to the radio!); but I think the one about magazine editors is quite appropriate, he's done something significant with 3 magazines edited in the US (Agora, Meridian, Democracy at Large) -- how else to account for that? Turgidson 19:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

On the "how else to account for that" issue: I find that the best way to deal with this is to find (or, if need be, create) categories referring to the respective press institutions - I'm not sure what the nomenclature is, but it should be something like "Journalists for [newspaper, radio, etc.]". The cat itself can then be included in "[something]ian journalists", based on the country where the institution is located, or not; in any case, if it is, it should not cause a problem, since some categories/categories in some cases work as the intersection of various spheres. Hypothetically, in case we ever create a cat for Contimporanul contributors, we could have Éluard, Breton, or Walden included, even the cat may also lead to "Romanian journalists". I find this very practical at times, since it saves everyone a headache, but I do not wish to impose it on you or anyone else; a distinction of some sort may be in order, though, since the objection concerning Tudoran is likely to be raised by someone else (people are working all the time at different ends, and we are quite possibly among the few people to actually want to bridge the gaps).

Indeed, that person was from the land of maple syrup, but his "contributions" were not limited to that side of the diaspora (I think it was he who listed Adrian Mutu as a "Romanian-Italian"). Dahn 21:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Good thing that guy is taking a long, well-deserved vacation! As for cats, there is of course Category:The New York Times, with subcat Category:New York Times people. On a smaller scale, we have Category:Gândirea, etc, but I sort of doubt there will ever be a Category:Jurnalul Naţional, let alone Category:Jurnalul Naţional people, but who knows, one should never say never. What would be a reasonable critical mass justifying some such category? As for Contimporanul, yes, it seems reasonable to have a cat, but perhaps only one, eg, Category:Contimporanul contributors? Turgidson 22:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed on the improbability of the Jurnalul cat[s]. I would have considered subcategorizing Gândirea, but, as I said, I did not look into the nomenclature, and I did not know, well, what else would belong there (cats consisting of one subcat and an article may easily be seen as overkill). I have no idea what the critical mass is, and, like many other criteria, it seems to be vulnerable to the whims of various editors (especially those with a Western world bias); to give you an example, they erased a "Mircea Eliade" category on the basis of "academics not being worth a category", even though I pointed out that he was not "just an academic", that the cat was consistent, and that the main article is filled with redlinks waiting to be filled (I got no answer, and the cat was deleted with some 4 votes in all). The annoying part is that the cat will have to be recreated at some point, and I/someone will have an ever harder time explaining why it was done, as obvious as it may seem... which is especially awkward, given that I don't even like Eliade. With this in mind, I get a little cautious about creating cats with content that the average USian may consider bizarre (especially since, eg, Breton is not known for his Contimporanul contributions, and this would have to make its way in the article). But I'll think about it - in any case, Contimporanul should have a bigger article. Dahn 22:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

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