Talk:Dennis Johnson

Please read WP:BLP and Wikipedia:Reliable sources

While dead, Johnson and his family have a reasonable expectation that information supplied to his bio be properly sourced and citeable. Poorly sourced information, rumors etc. cannot be used in this or any other bio. Ronbo76 15:25, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:External links#Links normally to be avoided states:

11. Links to blogs and personal webpages, except those written by a recognized authority.

Today's edit to a blog is hardly that. And, the site has pop-ups which is usually not a sign of a good site. Morenooso 16:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a blog on the site of The Providence Journal, a reputable news source. Also, I do not get any pop-ups when I go to the site, and I do not have a pop-up blocker enabled...

The paper may be reputable. Blogs are not because they are subject to change. I have three Windows programs that monitor pop-ups. The best is Zone Alarms followed by Symantec's Norton with Windows pop-up blocker. When I went to the root site of the Providence Journal, it tried to install something. Prior to that, a site (zedo) set off all the alarms. An authorative site per the WP:EL talkpage is one ala scientific or medical research pages where noted individuals discuss industry trends. I sincerely doubt that a sport reporter's blog on a newspaper qualifies as authorative. Morenooso 16:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Almost every national newspaper has a blog section. Also, by your logic, the ProJo can NEVER be used as a source ever. Kind of sounds foolish. Also, I looked into the WP:EL and saw nothing of what you said about "scientific or medical." In fact, it says this: Avoid: 11. Links to blogs and personal webpages, except those written by a recognized authority. Also, no information contained in this link qualifies as factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research. I believe you are making something out of a non-issue. I was asked to cite my source and I did, end of story. crazyd782

Sorry, I should have linked the WP:EL talkpage I mentioned above (Wikipedia talk:External links). I follow the conversations there (like my other Watchpages) and that is where the discussion about the authorative sources has come up. Blogs are everywhere. The problem with blogs is that they can be editted at will and do not have the scrunity as required by Wikipedia:Attribution which states that the "threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source." In fact, I now see that the discussion from Wikipedia talk:External links is now incorporated there as WP:SELFPUB where it says: "When a well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise has produced self-published material, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by reliable, third-party publications." The key words are published by reliable third party sources. Wikipedia:Reliable sources defines reliable sources further. An online blog does not qualify as such. Morenooso 19:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Weight Issue

"A weight issue may have been a contributing factor to Johnson's early death" Without an official statement (or even official speculation) from the coroner or Johnson's personal physican, I don't think the above statement should be in the article -- it's just speculation. Readers know there is some correlation between obesity and premature death. Mentioning it here as speculation is disrespetful. 65.24.249.74 19:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC) STOP SPREADING LIES ABOUT MY FATHER I am the son of Dennis Johnson. My friends have told me about this lie on Wikipedia. The authorities did not get it right about my father's case. It is one thing to keep this up, but this is completely not acceptable after his death. Please keep it off. Please leave this information alone. No need for this. He was a beloved person and his weight gain was nobodys business. If it needed to come out, smoking was more of a health issue with Dennis than anything else. If you want to do something in his honor, put out your cigarettes and never pick them up again!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.63.113.38 (talk • contribs).

You'll have to excuse me if I find that just a bit unbelievable. And assuming it's true, than following your advice and removing information from the article would be a gross violation of WP:NPOV.--AgentCDE 21:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Arrest record deletion

An anonymous IP has editted out the section about Johnson's arrest. In its most recent version, it was cited appropriately. Recommend it be re-instated. Ronbo76 13:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Dennis was an awesome player and a great man. There is no need to put accounts on here of an incident from so long ago and one where the charges were dropped.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.63.113.38 (talk • contribs) 21:02, 5 March 2007

Unfortunately it is public record and was properly cited. That makes it inclusive. Ronbo76 21:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Unprotect, resolution proposal

Please un-protect this image. Please see [1] for Jimbo's statement on the outcome (to summarize): The image with watermark shall be deleted. I am proposing that this image be unprotected (on commons), reverted to the unwatermarked version. If Cavic reverts it to the watermarked version, or states otherwise that he wants it deleted, then it should be immediately deleted. In addition, the caption removed completely from the article page. If Cavic restores the caption in any capacity or states otherwise, the image shall immediately be deleted. --MECU≈talk 00:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}} If you wish to have the page unprotected, please begin by asking User:John Reaves who made it protected, then make a request at WP:RFPP. CMummert · talk 00:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

GAC

Hi there, I just boldly rewrote DJ's article, and it is now a good article candidate. Feel free to feedback and improve! —Onomatopoeia 19:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Process

Right here we go, please note, this is my first ever GA review if I have made a big massive mistake, please don't bother shouting, because I simply will not do any more GA reviews.

1. It is well written. In this respect:

   (a) prose

• Please make the spelling of English words consistent with either American or British spelling, depending upon the subject of the article. Examples include: favourite (B) (American: favorite), defense (A) (British: defence), aging (A) (British: ageing), sceptic (B) (American: skeptic).
  •  Done Well, first thank you for reviewing this article. This part has been fixed: now it's favorite, defense, aging, skeptical. Chensiyuan 01:12, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

and

1. (b) MOS

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect, it:

   (a) references

1. (b) cites reliable sources

1. (c) contains no original research.

• It was at this time that Johnson's nickname "DJ" was coined by play-by-play announcer Bob Blackburn, to help distinguish him from fellow starter John Johnson (whom Blackburn referred to as "JJ"). - no source.
  •  Done outcommented until src is named —Onomatopoeia 08:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
• At age 25, the one-time high school garbage time player had reached the pinnacle of professional basketball. - opinion.
  •  Done rm sentence —Onomatopoeia 08:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect, it:

   (a) addresses the major aspects of the topic.

   (b) stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary details (see summary style).

2. It is neutral; that is, it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.

• Most of it seems like praise. Did any commentators critisize him?
  • Comment DJ was known as a troublemaker early in his career, and the article reflects this IMHO already. Finals MVPs don't get kicked out of the club. Also, the guy once threatened to murder his wife. That is not praise at all. —Onomatopoeia 08:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

1. It is stable; that is, it does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of an ongoing edit war.
2. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. - but I would prefer one or two more images of him.

• • Comment There are none on flickr that satisfy CC-BY-SA, see here. In addition, copyrighted sports images under WP:FAIR are always quickly removed, seems that the NBA has tight thumbscrews on Wikipedia. Also, other WP:NBA GAs like Shareef Abdur-Rahim don't have one. —Onomatopoeia 08:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

There's one or two other issues:

• If this article is about a person, please add {{persondata|PLEASE SEE [[WP:PDATA]]!}} along with the required parameters to the article - see Wikipedia:Persondata for more information.
  •  Done —Onomatopoeia 08:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
• Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.
  •  Done I think —Onomatopoeia 08:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
• Please reorder/rename the last few sections to follow guidelines at Wikipedia:Guide to layout.
  • Comment Could you be more specific plz? —Onomatopoeia 08:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
    •  Done Got it, I now switched the order of "External links" and "References". —Onomatopoeia 08:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
  • While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 16 additive terms, a bit too much.
    •  Done I think, got rid of many superfluous "also" in particular —Onomatopoeia 08:25, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm putting this article on hold. When you have made the necessary adjustments, contact me on my talkpage. Thanks! Davnel03 17:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for making the necessary adjustments. With this, I am passing the article. Well done. Davnel03 11:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! —Onomatopoeia 12:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Celtics assessment

Should it really be high? I was thinking mid. Basketball110 _{what famous people say} ♣ 17:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

How many kids?

Adrian Wojnarowski's column lists four children instead of three (wikipedia's number). Can we get a fact check? 69.91.82.182 (talk) 09:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlqE9GTMWu.yDRlQgyEvTaC8vLYF?slug=aw-dennisjohnson060708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.82.182 (talk) 09:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Dennis Johnson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article is very good, currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards,--Jackyd101 (talk) 12:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

• It is reasonably well written.

  a (prose): b (MoS):

The prose is passable, a 6.5/10. It has problems with redundancy and awkward phrasing but is good enough for GA.

• It is factually accurate and verifiable.

  a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

References seem fine, but please note that they are mostly improperly formatted. See the formatting guide below for information on how to improve them.

• It is broad in its coverage.

  a (major aspects): b (focused):

• It follows the neutral point of view policy.

  a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

• It is stable.

  

• It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

  a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

• Overall:

  a Pass/Fail:

Citations

The internet inline citations used in this article are improperly formatted. Internet citations require at the very least information on the title, publisher and last access date of any webpages used. If the source is a news article then the date of publication and the author are also important. This information is useful because it allows a reader to a) rapidly identify a source's origin b) ascertain the reliability of that source and c) find other copies of the source should the website that hosts it become unavaliable for any reason. It may also in some circumstances aid in determining the existance or status of potential copyright infringments. Finally, it looks much tidier, making the article appear more professional. There are various ways in which this information can be represented in the citation, listed at length at Wikipedia:Citing sources. The simplest way of doing this is in the following format:

<ref>{{cite web|(insert URL)|title=|publisher=|work=|date=|author=|accessdate=}}</ref>

As an example:

• <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.discovery.org/a/3859|title=Avoiding a Thirty Years War|publisher=www.discovery.org|work=[[The Washington Post]]|date=2006-12-21|author=Richard W. Rahn|accessdate=2008-05-25}}</ref>

which looks like:

• Richard W. Rahn (2006-12-21). "Avoiding a Thirty Years War". The Washington Post. www.discovery.org. Retrieved 2008-05-25.

If any information is unknown then simply omit it, but title, publisher and last access dates are always required. If you have any further questions please contact me and as mentioned above, more information on this issue can be found at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Regards--Jackyd101 (talk) 12:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

A 'cancer'

Wilkens perceived him as MERELY a liability? He called him a 'cancer'. I was never as surprised and as upset at the Sonics coach when I first read that in the Seattle Times all those years ago. I didn't find that article, but I did find this:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1367&dat=19801002&id=F-IVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QxMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4554,409468 Monoblocks (talk) 18:31, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Some comments from Zagalejo

I'll add to this list as I read through the article.

Lead

• Playing the roles of shooting guard in his first years before becoming a point guard with the Celtics, he won three NBA championships, winning the NBA Finals Most Valuable Player Award in the 1979 NBA Finals, was voted into five All-Star Teams, in one All-NBA First and one Second Team, and into nine straight All-Defensive First and Second Teams.

• There's a lot of information crammed into this sentence. It might be better to split it into two sentences for the sake of readability and clarity. The way the sentence is structured, one might think that Johnson won his Finals MVP award with the Celtics, even though he actually won it with the Sonics.

• I did some rewriting.—Chris!_c/t 05:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• Better now. I made some additional fixes. Zagalejo^^^ 01:38, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• For his feats, the Celtics franchise has retired Johnson's number-3 jersey...

• "number-3" looks odd to me. Is that hyphen typical?

• I removed the hyphen.—Chris!_c/t 05:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Zagalejo^^^ 01:38, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Early years

• Originally a baseball fan and a Little Leaguer,[2] Johnson Jr. learned basketball from his father...

• This is the first time he's introduced as "Johnson Jr." It's not stated anywhere in the ref that he was named after his father (and unless his seven older siblings were all girls, he probably wasn't).

• I am not sure. What do you suggest?—Chris!_c/t 05:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• I'd remove the "Jr.", unless you happen to know why it's there. Zagalejo^^^ 01:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• Removed—Chris!_c/t 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Zagalejo^^^ 19:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• In addition, as Johnson was known as a troublemaker, several universities were wary to take a player with character issues.

• This seems out of place at the end of the paragraph, since you've already started talking about the NBA. Did you mean to say "several NBA teams"?

• Fixed—Chris!_c/t 05:20, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Zagalejo^^^ 01:40, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Seattle SuperSonics (1976-80)

• In the 1978–79 season, Johnson established himself as one of the best guards in the league, averaging 15.9 points and 3.5 assists per game, being elected in the All-Defensive First Team and into his first of five All-Star games.

• This would work much better as two sentences. The participial phrases read awkwardly back-to-back. I'm not even sure if the structure of the sentence is grammatically defensible. Zagalejo^^^ 04:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• I moved things around. The paragraph reads better now I think.—Chris!_c/t 06:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Zagalejo^^^ 01:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Legacy

• Known as a defensive stalwart, he was elected into nine straight All-Defensive First or Second Teams,[3] and is acknowledged by the NBA as a "money player"[1] who was clutch in decisive moments, such as playing smothering defense on Magic Johnson in the 1984 NBA Finals, converting a last-second layup in Game 4 of the 1987 Eastern Conference Finals after a Larry Bird steal, and most importantly winning the 1979 NBA Finals MVP award.[1]

• Another very long-sentence. Plus, I don't think "winning the 1979 NBA Finals MVP award" counts as a moment of clutch play. You'd be better off mentioning the 32 points he scored in Game 4 of that Finals series; that's something specific that he did on the court.

• Done—Chris!_c/t 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• OK. Zagalejo^^^ 19:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Personal life

• During his life, Johnson was also known for his unusual outward appearance: despite being African-American, he had freckles and reddish hair.

• This statement just doesn't seem to fit where it is. I'm not sure where else to put it, though.

• Not sure. It was there before I came across this article.—Chris!_c/t 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

• Is there any additional information about his family? Half the section is about an arrest. Zagalejo^^^

• I will see what I can find.—Chris!_c/t 18:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

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