Talk:Death Note/Archive 2

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Trivia section

Admittedly, I'm opposed to any trivia sections, but I'll go ahead and state my view on the one for this article. First of all, one thousand people died in the first volume? Did a character say this or what? I added a citation needed for that. If after a sufficient time no one has provided evidence to back this claim, I'm going to delete that. Seems like vandalism. In any case, the bits about L, Mello, and Near seem unnecessary. Shouldn't they be put on the page about the characters instead since it pertains to their personalities? The last two bits of trivia seem pertinent and could probably stay, but I'd rather just see the whole section dismantled and removed. --Trance 07:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. - GatoGirl 12345

About the "1000 death" in the first volume.. what kind of source do you need? Just pick the volume and count them. - Air.

I would want a quote or number of quotes from the story itself as a source. You can't seriously count the number of names. Most of the time when Light holds up the Death Note, the writing isn't even legible, so you can't say you just counted. That also would be original research anyways, which we don't include here don't forget. By the way, people, even if you don't have an account, tag your posts still with the four ~s so we can see which IP you're operating under. --Trance 17:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

1000 should be removed and replaced by "over 100" as was directly stated in the G8 meeting. -- AS Artimour 22:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, Trvia states the most common lanuage is Manderine Chinese, as far as I know this is incorrect. It is the most spoken FIRST language allright, but English is spoken more as a second language and because of that more people can speak english then Manderine Chinese. So Ryuku's statement is quite true

I don't like the last trivia point about Kira. For one thing, it's not a "title", because it wasn't an official name from the creators, or given out as a title by the shinigami - it was what 'the people' came up with. Yes, Kira sounds like 'killer' in english, and Kira may mean light (I don't know japanese), it's less double meaning and more pun because Kira's real name is (gasp) Light. Gwendolyr 09:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Why spoiler free?

Why are you guys trying to make this page with almost no spoilers at all? WP:NOT Wikipedia is not censored, so I'm trying to understand why make this without spoilers? If someone sees a spoiler warning and reads on, that's their problem, not the article contributors. Come on everybody, let's fix this!

First off, please sign your name next time with the four ~s. Secondly, I don't see what's wrong with the page as it is. We have all the information needed in sub-articles. We list all of the rules of the Death Note, detailed descriptions of all the characters, and a detailed descritpion of the plotline in other articles to keep this one from becoming overly long. While it's okay to have spoilers, most of the parts with spoilers required a lengthy section that would either have to be poorly summarized on this page or could be given their own page and explained in detail. Trance 17:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I could've sworn I signed that... oops. Anyways, I looked at the article a bit more, and you're right. It is pretty good. One problem though: there's no descriptions for Near and Mello, and yet I believe they are major characters of the second story arc, are they not?

And it wouldn't hurt to add more info on Watari, Mogi, Raye Penber, etc. SuperDT 21:08, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Hm, yeah. Mello and Near are pretty much the centers of the second arc. Watari doesn't have too much of a role, so his section could only be expanded a bit. Raye Penber was only present in the first two volumes if I'm not mistaken, and he played a fairly simple role, so expanding his section would also be tough. But I'll see what I can do for Mogi since he does have a few crucial roles. Good suggestions.

About the Mello and Near sections... I'll add the sections soon if no one else does. But I don't know the Japanese names (and my computer refuses to run Japanese characters, so I couldn't edit those in anyways), and to keep it consistent with the set up for the other characters, that information would be useful. --Trance 05:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Here you go: Near is ニア(Nia), and Mello is メロ(Mero). SuperDT 17:33, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry about the long wait on that edit, but I finally got around to it. The sections are a bit long and there's a lot more spoilers now, so they may need some revision. I thought about expanding the section about Light to cover the events of the second arc, too. It would make more sense, I guess, but I'm not sure how big to make the section. Judging from how much I was going to put from Near and Mello, I might have doubled the section size about Light. I'm not against that, but I guess my problem was that it would have almost made the whole article specifically for the characters obsolete. I don't know. Someone can redo the Mello, Near, and Light articles if they feel the need. --Trance 05:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I would consider spoiler free (or nearly so) articles a good thing to have. Going and substantially changing existing articles just to make them spoiler free is obnoxious, but this is actually a rather nice setup. --tjstrf 05:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I posted, but it disappeared--did someone delete it? I believe that this article should indeed contain spoilers, our point should be, rather, to hide these spoilers more effectively. Spoilers are just as vaild as information as anything else. We would be witholding our knowledge if we did not put it into this article. --Dyplung 01:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

No, Dyplung, your post was not deleted; it is still present at the bottom of this page. But I agree, this article doesn't need many obvious spoilers. An entire overview of the plot may be read at the Plotline of Death Note page, and details about the characters may be found at the Characters of Death Note page, so there's no need to include many spoilers here. --Patrician Vetinari 02:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

How does Mello know about the death note?

sorry, this has been on my nerves since reading the "detailed" plotline, but how does Mello know about the death note?

To my recollection... One of the members of his group knew about the Death Note because he used to be part of the Japanese police. I guess that guy found out during that whole episode where they caught Higuchi, the events at the start of Volume 7. --Trance 04:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Three words: Deus Ex Machina. Loborojo

One of Mello's men was a spy in the SPK (lead by Near). As soon as the SPK discover the existence of the Death Note, the spy borrows a civilian's cell phone and tells Mello. This is how it happened in the manga, at least.

Suggestions for the structure of this topic entry

I would like to suggest on the style of this article as part of an encyclpedic entry. First, I don't think that this set up is the best one to have, at least not for an encyclopedic style entry (if you can claim it to be a part of one) Why? because the story of Death Note, 109 chapters in total, does read like two separate and distinct major episodes. It is important to make this clear to the readers-but this entry does not. Secondly, why care so much about spoilers being placed on the article and thus having to resort to creating so many separate entries for the topic? This is all wrong, why? In a proper encyclopedic article, all necessary and relevant facts must be present together, at least for a subject as specific as "Death Note". You are not writing an entry as broad as, let say, "United States" or "Medicine" where a whole bunch of related subtopics must be entered separately. Remember, this is not a manga advertisement to invite people into buying the manga, it is an ENCYCLOPEDIC ENTRY! (so no one cares about spoilers, because it is supposed to describe the events anyway) Even from the way you list and describe the characters, why Near after Mello? Isn't it that an important (having more influence on the course of the story) character is supposed to be listed first? It's not about the popularity of the character, the order is about the level of influence of that character. It seems that the styling of this article is quite improper, and almost defeat the purpose of the whole project.

Go read the guidelines on writing about fiction and then tell us where we have erred. The multi-article format is standard, since one of the greatest advantage of the web is the potential for the creation of sub-pages. Also, Death Note does read as two distinct plots, both containing introduction, climax, and resolution. --tjstrf 03:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

L, M, N. Alphabetical. That's why Mello comes first. And, in case you hadn't noticed, it is also done by when they were introduced into the story. And Mello appears before Near by two panels. Also, I'll just agree with the person above me about the format, and say on a final note that you should lose the attitude. --Trance 01:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

About vandalism

Alright, the article's been getting a lot of vandalism lately. People editing in nonsensical random letters, people editing in Raito instead of Light, and people editing in crap about characters being sexy and such. I had to revert to a somewhat old edit to get rid of all the vandalism. I'm not sure what exactly of relevance is missing in this one. I'll check it in a bit. But please, help revert vandalism immediately when you see it. --Trance 22:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It's incredible to see the vandalism coming from Death Note fanatics instead of detractors.

Of course, they forget every objective mistake made by the script writer... in any other article about any other product, someone would have already added a section with a list of all these mistakes.

It's like the most relevant thing is stating that the characters are "sexy and such". Loborojo

Raito would the be katakana translitation into Japanese of "Light". As much as the word "Hikari" also exists, English words can be imported, and due to the absence of "l-<vowel>" syllables due to them being indistinguishable from "r-<vowel>" syllables as well as the need to have a vowel after each consonent (or ya such as in rya), this is as close as it can get. As such, it shouldn't really be considered vandalism, just a different spelling that perhaps a vote should be taken on. --Impartial Observer

I don't think we should have a vote, becuase "Raito" is never mentioned as "Raito" in the official releases of Death Note, but rather in the scanlated versions. Therefore, I believe we should use what Viz Media uses. SuperDT 06:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Also note that in the Japanese tankôbon, which lists all of the characters names in English lettering, calls him Light. I have no idea why fan translators uses Raito, as it is obvious what his name is supposed to be (he even explains his name to Naomi Misora, that it is written with the kanji for moon but pronounced Light (some kind of pun of moonlight, I guess?)). Chibi Gohan 07:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Characterization

"After several incidents, his goal changed from creating a utopia to creating the world in his image and bending the world to his will. As he then possessed the power of death over both human and Shinigami, he was on his way to becoming more powerful than a god."

The first sentence definitely isn't clearly true. I'm not sure what "several incidents" are, and it's also never stated that Light stopped wanting to create a utopia. In the first place, he wanted to bend the world to his will (the will of justice/righteousness), though the person who wrote this sentence in Wikipedia clearly wants to characterize that as selfish/evil. And I'm not sure about "creating the world in his image". The second sentence is definitely false. Rem comments that Light has surpassed a shinigami in the ability to kill shinigami as well as humans, but he wasn't able to freely kill shinigami like he could humans, he just manipulated 1 shinigami into killing herself. Maybe if he had been responsible for the fact that she loved Misa, he could have been said to have the ability to kill a shinigami, but there's no way he could ever touch Ryuk. "More powerful than a god"--what does this mean?

Agreed. It means "more powerful than a god" because it says something to that effect in vol. 7... I forgot where though, and I don't have my copy on hand. BTW, please sign your name with four tildes(~) please. Thanks! SuperDT 21:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Danuve?

Ryuzaki admitted to Light that "L" was composed of himself, Watari, and a "Danuve". Ryuzaki and Watari were killed by Rem(even though we never got to see their true names -_-), but Danuve wasn't. Is he the old guy at the orphanage? Also, would it be all right to add that Near breaks his toys after he is done playing with them?67.170.39.232 07:29, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Ryuzaki is L. Watari is L's more or less assistant. L is obviously L. And by "Danuve" you mean Deneuve, who is L. L is the worlds three greatest detective. But as one person. He's L Deneuve and Eraldo Coil.

Movies

Cinema Topics Online has confirmed that there are plans for an American screening of these movies and even an American remake, depending on their commercial success.

Is this actually true? The statement lacks a citation, so I'm wondering if anyone has any information. It doesn't seem probable, but that would be great news if it were true. Chibi Gohan 07:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[1] I hope you can read Japanese, Mr./Mrs. Small Rice ^_^ If not, then it basically says what you said, about plans for a US release. I think it is possible, but not for another 2 or more years, and it'll probably be another crappy remake, like the Grudge and The Ring. SuperDT 16:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the link! That sounds like great news. I won't care if they make a crappy remake (here's hoping it won't be too crappy), as long as Death Note gets some attention in America! Chibi Gohan 15:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

The symbolism of the apple

Could someone explain the significance of the red apple in the article please? I think it has something to do with the red apple the devil gave to Eve in the bible.60.53.71.186 14:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there is any significance, nor should anybody put anything about it in the article unless the creators have said it, because it will be original research (I'm not talking to you, 60.53.71.186, but to all the Wikipedians who were thinking about it :) SuperDT 16:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The apple has no symbolism. It's there because Ryuk eats apples and that's it. There's nothing special about it. Be yourself and 5 other cliches 21:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The apple represents the fruit of temptation, which is the Death Note that Light is tempted into using and it causes his eventual downfall. Atashi 00:02, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Still speculation unless otherwise said by an official source. --Wirbelwind 00:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the anime opening sequence does play around with the symbol of the apple and the fall from grace a bit, and I do agree that it probably has some sort of symbolism behind it (Ryuk eating the apple and tempting Light, who is naive to the consequences of using the Death Note and falls into sin) since apples wouldn't be likely to play much part in the series unless they were a symbol. However, it hasn't been stated by the creators as far as anyone here knows, nor is it sourceable, so it shouldn't be added but it is something to consider and perhaps keep an eye out for in interviews, if you can read or understand Japanese. Nique1287 22:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Moving the "Episode Guide"/Spoilers

I think that it might be an idea to consider in the future, not now, for sure; now it would be a pitiful page indeed, if we were to move the episode guide to a separate page. I might be bringing this up prematurely, but seeing how well wikipedia's separate sections work with other show's (i.e. Oh My Goddess! and its detatched episode guide: List of Oh My Goddess episodes, among other well made anime pages) in the future, when this show has more episodes--or at least enough to base a page on--I think that the move might be worth considering. I believe that the episode guide on the main page is not only unsightly, but manages to tell you the plot of the show before you want to know it. By which I mean that when you look over it regardless if you are trying to avoid the spoilers or not, you comprehend them before you know it--and that's not exactly fun when you're just looking to see that a particular episode exists, let alone exactly what happens in it. I imagine that this will garner some contrary opinions on the subject, but be that as it may, I believe that in the very least, some action in attempt to make the pictures and episode names more separate from the spoiler information should be taken. --Dyplung 01:13, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Firstly, many of the spoilers are in fact in the Characters section, for which there is also another page but there are still spoilers on this one, not the Episodes section. Even in the Episodes section, the only way to avoid spoilers is to not write a caption about what happens in the episode. Regardless, there'd be spoilers on the page anyway, so your analogy of 'seeing if an episode exists without wanting to know what happens' is somewhat moot. The number of episodes planned means that they will -have- to go on a separate page eventually, though I don't see that as 'hiding spoilers' so much as 'saving space on a main article' in pretty much all cases in which it happens.

Secondly, the pictures and episode names don't really give away all that much yet. Besides which, I'm sure if someone posted a truly spoilerific screencap (such as a dead main or secondary character laying on the ground), someone else would replace it with one that's more innocent. In the case of the episode name, all it gives is a one-word idea of what the episode is 'about', and since it's the official episode name, it really should be included, IMO, especially since this is an Encyclopedic article, not a teaser page. I guess my point is, if people can't understand "Plot and/or ending details follow." then perhaps Wikipedia isn't the place for them to be looking up information on the series. Nique1287 21:49, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Making Spoilers Less Obvious

I've suggested a few times over, that we figure out a way of hiding spoilers, and make people who view them do so more deliberately, as to not give out that information to people who don't want to know it. Oh My Goddess! does this well with its List of Oh My Goddess episodes--but that, of course, works because of the magnitude of their episode list itself! Any ideas while we still have a chance to work out this problem before it gets too big? --Dyplung 01:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite understanding what you want. It says "making spoilers less obvious," yet it seems you want to make them more obvious.

Here's a suggestion: take out the spoiler warning, take out all spoilers, move the spoilers to the end of their corresponding sections, and put Spoiler Warnings before them. That way, people won't have to read it if they just want some basic info.

But, the big problem is: what would you consider a "spoiler?" To someone just starting to read the books/ watch the anime, even reading basic info would likely be a spoiler; to someone halfway through the manga/ anime, some more detailed info would likely be a spoiler; and so on.

If you can explain what you said a little more clearer, then I can help you some more. SuperDT 02:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry for being indistinct. But I don't agree that by moving spoilers--things that display what is at any point a "surprise" in the story--unless that information absolutely hinders our article. Fore example: in Death Note it is not sensible to try and hide, say, information about what the Death Note is, that would cut our a massive chunk of the article and its basic information. Let's use common sense to keep what people might not know hidden. Moreover, (as an example) we might consider only covering up to a certain point in the plot in the main article and putting subsequent plot information elsewhere--we are making them more obvious. More specifically, I believe we need to work on making our VIEWING of the spoilers entirely deliberate. It's not that the "Oh My Goddess" pages hid the spoilers well in of themselves, but that it is very difficult to read your way into a spoiler (on those pages) that you do not want to read without deliberately doing so. --Dyplung 00:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, so I reread all of your posts, and I'm assuming that you're talking about the anime, and spoilers in the summaries? If you are, then I suggest we do it just like the Ah! My Goddess article; list a short summary of the episode, and try to include only *necessary* spoilers. SuperDT 01:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)