Talk:Daugavpils

"Saules" school

Please explain the meaning. mikka (t) 21:17, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Done -- thanks for pointing that out! I hope to expand this article substantially soon (until then I'd left the names as they were, but thanks for fixing that, too... I suppose that all of the historical names should be dated, e.g., it was called Dvinsk 1893-1920.) --Pēteris Cedriņš 06:32, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Would you also provide us with recent photo's of the city, like you did on virtualtourist.com? (I found them, and you, while looking for additional information to expand my Daugavpils-article on Wikipedia.nl). Paldies! Fransvannes 21:17, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'd be glad to! I am completely inept at formatting photos for articles, though. So what I'll do is GNU license them, post them, and list them here on the talk page, so that someone who understands layout can insert them. --Pēteris Cedriņš 09:50, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added three current pics to the Commons; someone who is more adept at layout can use any of the three if any seem appropriate. They are: 1, 2, 3. --Pēteris Cedriņš 11:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Paragraph on "tension"

This should be edited, to my mind -- that Latvian is the official language in schools is completely untrue (there are only two and a half Latvian-language secondary schools, for example, and the education reform which calls for increased teaching in Latvian in minority schools has actually created very little "tension" here, comparatively, that term being a pretty meaningless generalization). Also, a strong majority of Daugavpils Russians holds citizenship by descent. I don't doubt that not a few Russophones aren't fond of the language laws or the citizenship laws, but this is overly vague as written. --Pēteris Cedriņš 11:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Just a note -- this article gets worse and worse -- the Russian-speaking majority in Daugavpils, which has demanded that Russian be restored as an official language alongside Latvian ...a "majority" "demanded"? How and when, and in what context? --Pēteris Cedriņš 22:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Grīva redirects here

But the article does not say why. Any good reason? Philaweb T 22:43, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Griva is now the district of Daugavpils, but was separate village earlier. Denis Tarasov (talk) 08:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

It was a separate town, not a village, in fact. Anyways, article for Grīva (according to its current status) is welcomed. —Glebchik (talk) 12:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

fierce jewish resistence?

Please elaborate, I don't think that's right. 80.230.81.52 (talk) 12:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Language, demographics, etc.

The remark that most ethnic Russians came to Daugavpils during the occupation and are non-citizens is factually incorrect; at registration in 1992, there were 39 988 ethnic Russians with Latvian citizenship and 27 058 without it; most ethnic Russians in Daugavpils hold citizenship by descent, and not a few others have since naturalized.

It's not actually true. According to the 1893 census Russians were the second biggest nationality in the city (28%) after the Jews (46%). Latvians were a minority with 1.8% of the total population. —Glebchik (talk) 12:57, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Russian empire censuses are not reliable, they only counted by language not by nationality.

Daugavpils demographic situation in 1935

Latvians -35% Jews - 25% Poles - 18% Russians - 18% Belorussians - 3% Indipuk (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

This line was far too vague and misleading: Though Latvian has been the official language in schools and government agencies since 1991, this has created tension with the Russian-speaking majority in Daugavpils, which has demanded that Russian be restored as an official language alongside Latvian. Though the state language is Latvian, most schools in Daugavpils have Russian as the language of instruction, with varying paths to fluency in Latvian (there is also a Polish school).

I'm not sure what "tension" means; there were some protests regarding the education reform requiring that 60% of instruction be in Latvian from the 10th grade, but the protests were organized by specific organizations like Shtab, not an amorphous majority. Since the education reform was implemented, opposition to it hasn't been apparent. --Pēteris Cedriņš (talk) 05:06, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Daugavpils, the end station of standard gauge 1435 mm railway in Latvia

The Germans regauged the Russian gauge 1524 mm Vilna - Dvinsk (Dünaburg) main line to standard West European gauge 1435 mm in 1917. In addition they built during World War One standard gauge railway from Lithuanian Radviliskis to Griva (188 km). The Polish troops helped Latvians to drive out the Bolsheviks from Daugavpils in 1920. Up to 23.08.1939 there was a daily through express train service running between Berlin Stadtbahn and Daugavpils via Königsberg, Insterburg, Tilsit, Jonatiskis, Radviliskis, Panevesys, Obeliai (passport and custom control, Lithuania), Eglaine (passport and custom control, Latvia). The direct express train departed from Berlin Friedrichstrasse at 23.42 from Königsberg at 08.15, from Insterburg at 09.21, from Tilsit at 10.29, from Radviliskis at 13.43 from Panevesys at 14.39 arriving to Obeliai at 16.20. The Central European Time (GMT + 1) was in use to Obeliai. The train departured from Obeliai at 16.30 and arrived to Eglaine at 18.00 East European Time (GMT + 2). Eglaine stop was only 10 minutes and the express train stopped at Griva at 18.48 funally arriving to Daugavpils at 19.00. At Daugavpils the eastbound passengers changed to Riga - Vitebsk - Smolensk - Moscow broad gauge train which departured from Daugavpils at 19.27 arriving to Moscow next day at 14.00 Moscow Time (GMT + 3). On the westbound journey the Moscow - Smolensk - Vitebsk - Daugavpils - Riga train departured from Moscow at 20.30 arriving to Daugavpils next day at 13.05. The standard gauge express train to Berlin departured from Daugavpils at 13.35, from Griva at 13.56, from Eglaine at 14.33, from Obeliai at 14.17, from Panevesys at 16.04, from Radviliskis at 17.12, arriving to Tilsit at 20.26, arriving to Insterburg at 21.17, arriving to Königsberg at 22.23, arriving to Berlin Friedrichstrasse at 07.10. In addition three Polish standard gauge trains arrived to Daugavpils from Warszawa and Wilno via Turmontas (Polish passport and custom control), Zemgale (Latvian passport and custom control), with stop at Griva. These trains arrived daily to Daugavpils at 03.20, (connection to Riga, departure at 03.37), 13.11 (connection to Riga, departure at 13.35), and 19.41 (connection to Riga and Tallinn, departure at 19.52). The Warszawa bound trains departured daily from Daugavpils at 05.00 (connection from Riga at 00.20), 13.15 (connection from Riga and Tallinn at 07.13, and 19.33 (connection from Riga at 15.50). It can be said Daugavpils was part of internal European railway network up to 22.08.1939. Even in Imperial Russia´s period there were three daily express trains running between St.Petersburg and Verzhbolovo via Dvinsk and Vilna in both directions. All these express trains had connection to German express trains at Verzhbolovo / Eydkuhnen forming fast train connections to Berlin and Paris. Nothing is mentioned of this important role in Daugavpils history. Peharps it was forgotten to mention in Soviet days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.117.142 (talk) 16:30, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Russian name in intro

Since the majority of the city are Russians, the vast majority of its residents are Russophones and the majority of its citizens voted yes in the 2012 referendum, surely the Russian name should also be in the intro (despite not being official)? It seems like it's only been excluded due to some sort of anti-Russian sentiment.--Cymru123 (talk) 21:54, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Agree, although I have to say that the modern Russian name of the city used by its inhabitants and elsewhere is effectively the same as the Latvian one, except being written in the Cyrillic script and having a slightly different pronunciation (in accordance with the Russian phonology): /ˈdaʊgəfpʲɪls/. The Russian pronunciation would definitely be relevant to the lead, I could record an audio file as well. The most recent historic Russian name of the city Dvinsk was still used by the Russian community during the era of the interwar Republic of Latvia and the WW2, but is hardly used any more, except in historic or poetic contexts. Also, sometimes you can hear and see the inhabitants being referred to as dvinchane (двинчане).

As to the overwhelming Russophone population, maybe we should directly mention in the lead as well. The most recent 2011 census shows that it's the principal home language of 79 or even 89 (if you deduct the number of those who didn't indicate their language) per cent of the population. --glossologist (talk) 01:49, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

The Russian name is Двинск. When Daugavpils was Russian, the Latvian name was not Dvinsk so now why should the Russians call it Давгавпилс or something like that?2A00:23C7:5882:8201:E19C:DDF7:2DED:AF39 (talk) 15:58, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

I edited it to show the real Russian name. 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:A1D4:2EB0:FEDC:E522 (talk) 20:42, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Just a remind. Consensus should incorporate all editors' legitimate concerns, while respecting Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Some important naming conventions which the article's lead violates (WP:LEAD#General guidelines and WP:LEAD#Separate section usage): Once a Names or Etymology section or paragraph is created, the alternative English or foreign names should not be moved back to the first line. As an exception, a local official name different from a widely accepted English name should be retained in the lead. (Foreign language: Local name; known also by several alternative names)".' If the case is exceptional, common sense may be applied to ignore all rules. Please discuss to decide whether this is an exceptional case or not.2A02:2430:3:2500:0:0:B807:3DA0 (talk) 04:26, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

First of all, regarding the Russian name, according to the last census, Russian is the native language for 79% of its residents (or 89% of those who indicated their language) with the city being long known as exceptionally Russophone. Therefore we cannot consider the name as foreign according to its normal definition, but rather a local one. Second, the WP:PLACE says that "Relevant foreign (which it's arguably not, but anyway—glossologist) language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted". The latter part could be arguably applied to Russian (the group being Russians), as well as Latgalian, a language based on the eastern dialects of Latvian in Latgale, a cultural region of Latvia of which Daugavpils is the largest city. --glossologist (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Latgalian is not a language but an eastern dialect of Latvian. Who is writing all these regionalism, which is the dumbest idea that I have ever heard in my life? 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:14DD:3CC0:3B99:8A0F (talk) 12:54, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Indeed even the title is based on the Russian name. I mean, the Latgalian name is not any kind of official name or exception and thus may be removed.2A02:2430:3:2500:0:0:B807:3DA0 (talk) 19:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

I merged the sections "Russian name in intro" and "Consensus" for they discuss the same thing. 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:C520:7EE1:DBAD:B27B (talk) 21:06, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

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