Talk:Culture of South Africa/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Untitled
I consider this page is highly POV. I dislike the terms coloured and races. Hence the header. Muriel 15:38, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Article is accurate
Because of apartheid, each race group [as defined by South African law] developed (or preserved) distinct cultural traits. Many of these cultural differences persist.
After a few more years of assimilation, it may make sense to get rid of the racial headings, but, as it stands, the article reflects contemporary South African culture quite well.
I don't understand why you find the term Coloured offensive, considering that many South African Coloureds embrace the term, and are proud of their identity. In fact, Coloured identity politics is very important in the Western Cape Province.
168.209.98.35 16:08, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Race and "South African culture"
- I believe I added the above section to the talk page in 2004, when I was editing Wikipedia anonymously.
- Things haven't changed as fast as expected, and exactly 17 years later, I've added a well-sourced paragraph to the lede about the persistence of apartheid racial classifications in "South African culture". Part of it was adapted from the text of the article Population Registration Act, 1950. As uncomfortable as it was to add the paragraph, Wikipedia needs to reflect reality, as reflected in WP:RS, and the current reality is that South African culture remains riven by race. If this changes over time, it should be updated. Park3r (talk) 04:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, Anonymous South African
As a non-South African, I do not use the term coloured, except in a South African context, and even then, I qualify it, using the term mixed race. I have written on the Coloured page, that in a British and US context the term is offensive. In my opinion, so too is half-caste. My philospophy is not to call people something that they do not call themselves.
There is nothing wrong vwith explaining that there are cultural, religious, and linguistic differences between South Africa's different ethnic groups. There are similar differences between those of Singapore and Malaysia as well. Is that racist or offensive? No.
I don't know if you've been to South Africa at all, Muriel. If you do, you might find that there are also differences between white South Africans of Portuguese, Greek, Italian, Jewish, origins as well as Afrikaans and English-speaking South Africans.
Boffin 02:56 (UTC), 21st June 2004
People do call themselves Coloured, I’m one ;) DumaTorpedo (talk) 09:37, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Number of Jews in SA
The recent edit by 81.138.55.246 is probably accurate - there's a source at [1] Greenman 23:22, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Duplication of content
The section on "Friendly banter" repeats a lot of the content found in the second paragraph of the section on White South Africans.
"African" and "South Africa"
Many people of ALL races who live in South Africa refer to themselves as South Africans first and foremost, rather than as "black", "coloured" or "white". Indeed, an increasing number of white South Africans now refer to themselves as, "Africans" in the same way that a American person of any race group would refer to themselves as, "American". A white South African can call him/herself African as s/he may identify with the African continent.
I am an Afrikaner living in South Africa, and I have never heard the term "soutpiel". It also conveys a sense of anymosity towards English-speaking South Africans. From my perspective, the general Afrikaans-speaking South African of my generation (I am 28) has an indifferent position towards English-speaking South Africans. Older generations might still remember the Anglo-Boer war and related issues, but I do not.
I am an English speaking South African with both English and Afrikaans heritage, and yes, the term 'soutpiel' is/was widely used. So is 'rooinek' - 'red neck' or 'engelsman' But so what. There isnt a country anywhere in the world that doesnt have slang labels for people of other cultures and those cultures in turn have slang words for us. Even the Blacks, Indians and coloureds in South Africa have slang words in their own language they use for the Whites. So whats the big deal. I tell what the big deal is. YOU CANT READ ZULU!! If you could you would read words like 'white cockaroch', 'indian pig' and other equally offensive words. I am english, and speak english, yet my one sister who is also english, married afrikaans and her children are afrikaans and I call them dutchman and planks. Its a term of endearment that has been around before my time and your time. Dont come and change our history. Its our history to keep. If you dont like it, thats fine. But its ours. The coloureds are proud of being coloured. I have coloured south african friends and they do not want to be knows as 'darkies' or whites' or indians. They are coloureds and thats that. Because if there are not coloureds, then what are they? The dont belong anywhere. I have lived in the UK and now live in New Zealand. The UK is the most rasist country I have ever lived in. Uterly horrible and nasty people who victimise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.161.101 (talk) 00:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Omissions
Don't music and literature count as culture, or only TV?! --MacRusgail 15:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
- Still no progress on this front! What's happening people? --MacRusgail (talk) 23:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Sport
Some of the text under the sports section regarding whites/blacks is rather pov. Has no references either. Cvene64 14:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Miriam Makeba
I've been recently introduced to her music, and I certainly don't dispute her inclusion in the article. However, I couldn't verify that she was in the musical Ipi Tombi (with a quick google search), and I'm sure she was famous before the release of that musical. However, I'm not familiar enough with her work yet to give a good replacement blurb. Should the article say she was famous for the song "Pata Pata" or for her appearance in Come Back Africa, which appeared to be the reason for her exile? Since I'm not familiar with the topic, I removed the mention of the musical Ipi Tombi, but didn't replace it with anything for now, as I was unsure what to do. Graham talk 13:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- On some more research, she certainly wasn't in Ipi Tombi according to her IMDB entry, and it seems that Come Back, Africa was her breakthrough appearance on the world stage, as well as the reason for her exile. I've therefore added that info. The incorrect information was added in this edit and this correction, both of which were probably made in good faith. Graham talk 11:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- I've replaced it again with King Kong, which was probably the the musical that the original editor was referring to. It was released before the film Come Back, Africa. Graham87 03:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Cleanup
I added the cleanup tag, as the article is not in great shape. Too many people have fiddled with the article, chopping it up into bits and pieces. An example is Cvene64's edit from June, which mangled a sentence about the Springboks, and has been unnoticed since then. The breakdown based on apartheid categories is not a good reflection of modern, urban South Africa. The well-known South African sports stars listed are all white, and only two are current. The quotes in the sport section should really be referenced if they're given such precedence. The section on cuisine somehow merges the thoughts on millet and braais, which which surprise fans of both.
The article's a nice try, but is really in need of some restructuring and context. It's too much for me right now, but I'm tagging it for those who have the energy! Greenman 14:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Culture : White People
I was shocked to read words like "soutpiel" and "salt dick" on this webpage. Children are doing research on this subject and I don't think this is a true reflection of the White people's culture. This is all about namecalling and it's very negative. I suggest we add something positive and upbuilding for example music and some historical facts. Let's show the world we are proud of our culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.54.206.90 (talk) 07:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
- Oh jeez, yes, and the whole braaivleis and sunny skies thing again. And sport. Gimme a break. Why is it that white South Africans have such a narrowminded view of white South Africans? I'm a white (Afrikaans) South African and I couldn't give a rat's nad about either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.202.5.104 (talk) 10:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
This however are predominant parts of white culture and the only thing that makes it unique DumaTorpedo (talk) 10:19, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Multiple edits
I have done a large number of small edits. I did it this way so that anyone can easily pick & choose which to revert or otherwise alter. Roger (talk) 08:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
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“Football” or “soccer”
The national association football association of South Africa is called the South African Football Association. “Football” is the name used to call the sport by FIFA, the game’s international governing body. There’s no sport in South Africa that’s more popular than association football which goes by the name “football” OR including the word “football” in it, unlike in the United States of America or Australia. “Soccer” is also widely used, but the sport is formally referred to as “football”. “Soccer” is more of a popular nickname for the sport. LordNkosi (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
I would also make a section of information for learners for a school project about sa culture — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.89.15.71 (talk) 10:18, 29 April 2020 (UTC)