Talk:Crusade of 1197

Name

Tourskin, I believe there are better names for this; "Crusade of Henry VI" or "Crusade of 1194" or "German Crusade of 1194" are names that spring to mind. "Henry's crusade" could mean any Henry. Adam Bishop 05:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely, I came up with this name because there is no other official name. Crusade of 1194 sounds ok. German Crusade of 1194 means that the earlier German Crusade in 1096 needs a date too. Crusade of 1194 sounds good cos there may have been non-German elements of the Holy Roman Empire. Tourskin 07:01, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've moved it. I meant 1197, not 1194; I was going by the date of Henry's death given in this article. Are you sure Norwich says 1195? Adam Bishop 18:45, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

To quote from Norwich's book, "But what became of the great expedition proclaimed by Henry in 1195?"Tourskin 06:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is 1195. I am very sure of it - its right in front of me right now! lol cant prove it tho. Tourskin 06:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, that's odd. It's 1197 everywhere else. Adam Bishop 09:24, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Truly? Without soundng smug or anything, why has no one made the article or even mentioned it until I did? Besides, I would like to see these sources that amount to "everywhere else" - lol! But still... so show me!!

A Hyped and Crusading Tourskin 07:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The thing is this: If the First Crusade was to be named on its date, what would it be called? Crusade of 1096 or Crusade of 1099? The date of the greatest action or the date of departure? The Crusade initiated in 1195. Henry died that year but the Crusaders did not hear of it until later and only a civil war stopped the Crusade in 1197. So in my opinion, it should be called crusade of 1195.

Another distantly related military example is the War of 1812 between teh US and the UK. The war ended in 1815, but the war began in 1812, hence its name.

So to conclude the name of the Crusade should be 1195, when it was "taken up" by Henry IV, son of the Red beard.Tourskin 08:02, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Well our own Henry VI of Germany article says he died in 1197. Google also shows a majority for "Crusade of 1197", including the Medieval Sourcebook. Adam Bishop 18:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't argue with you there. I just don't see why. 1197 is not a particularly special year other than perhaps that when they reached the holy land. It can't be argued that the crusade was not launched in 1195 but after googling I saw that 1197 is mentioned date so I concede. Tourskin 06:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

This IS the German Crusade and it took place in 1197. -- Secisek (talk) 05:51, 26 March 2008 (UTC)