Talk:Continent/Archive 7

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Archive 7

Disinformation about Columbus

The article says:

> But despite four voyages to the Americas, Columbus never believed he had reached a new continent—he always thought it was part of Asia.

This is not true. He did think it was a new continent on his third voyage (the one where he landed on continental America as opposed to the islands). He wrote as much in his journals:

> I have come to believe that this is a mighty continent which was hitherto unknown

You can see it in various books on Google Books including this one: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=blJZYInNFkkC&pg=PT267&dq=I+have+come+to+believe+that+this+is+a+mighty+continent+which+was+hitherto+unknown&hl=ro#v=onepage&q=I%20have%20come%20to%20believe%20that%20this%20is%20a%20mighty%20continent%20which%20was%20hitherto%20unknown&f=false

Also see https://www.britannica.com/biography/Christopher-Columbus/The-second-and-third-voyages :

> and by August 15 he knew by the great torrents of fresh water flowing into the Gulf of Paria that he had discovered another continent—“another world.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.33.152.203 (talk) 15:10, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Japan is not a continent!

Change to Europe 220.236.163.114 (talk) 21:44, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Not on earth

If continents are defined to be on earth and islands must be a land surrounded by water within a continent does that mean no other planet in the universe can have continents and islands? 120.18.223.177 (talk) 13:16, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

No. And islands do not need to be within a continent.--Vsmith (talk) 14:00, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

No. There are likely many thousands of planets in the universe with water and islands.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzild (talk • contribs) 04:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Why no other point of views?

As a reader, I think it would be very interesting to see other point of views from around the world in the "History of the concept" section, there are only concepts from Europe, and not places like the Middle East or China. Omar Hall (talk) 15:14, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Continents as a concept come from Europe (originally ancient Greece). The concept likely spread as European power did. CMD (talk) 15:23, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

About Australia

Not all models consider Australia as a continent. For example, most countries that teach the 6-continent combined America model consider Australia as only the name of a single country and instead classify Oceania as a continent for the sake of including every country as part of a continent. Masterball2 (talk) 02:05, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

And? Is this not already covered in the article? What are you asking us to do? --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:55, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Could be explained why Australia shown purple, and Oceania grey on the color map. JSoos (talk) 10:08, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

What about Zealandia?

See: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210205-the-last-secrets-of-the-worlds-lost-continent

Consistently speaking, an ocean is a body of water surrounded by shore, and a continent is a body of land surrounded by shore, such as Sark or Rockall, but let's not follow that red herring....

JonRichfield (talk) 11:54, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

If you read the article you will see it is mentioned under 'submerged continents' Robynthehode (talk) 13:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Oceania/Australia map problem

Animated, colour-coded map showing some continents and the region of Oceania (purple), which includes the continent of Australia. Depending on the convention and model, some continents may be consolidated or subdivided.

I know Australia (continent) is considered a continent in major English-speaking countries (Five Eyes) while in some non-English-speaking countries, Oceania is considered to be a continent instead, but the map we use is confusing. The map shows the region of Oceania under the name "Australia". If we adopt the definition used by major English-speaking countries, shouldn't New Zealand and other Pacific Islands be represented by another colour (e.g. grey)? 2001:8003:9100:2C01:8D5:B620:D6B2:B901 (talk) 08:42, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2023

The sentence "In some non-English-speaking countries, such as China, Poland, and Russia, Oceania is considered a proper continent..." is factually wrong. At least in post-Soviet countries Oceania has never been considered a continent.

First, I know that as a person educated in a post-Soviet country. The continents we studied in school were Eurasia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica and Australia. There is also a distinct concept called "parts of the world" that lists Europe, Asia, Africa, America, Antarctica and Australia, the latter sometimes being called "Australia and Oceania". That may have led the author of the sentence to believe that Russian "part of the world" concept is also Russian '"equivalent word for "continent"' which is not.

Second, it contadicts something clearly stated earlier in the same article, which clearly enumerates continents in the "six-continent combined-Eurasia" model not listing Oceania among them.

Third, you may check the corresponding pages in Russian: here Oceania is described as a "collective name for a vast collection of islands and atolls in...the Pacific Ocean" - and Polish: here Oceania is referred to as a "collective name of the islands of the Pacific Ocean".

At the same time, the very name of the corresponding Chinese page: "Oceania island region" suggests a continent called "Oceania" isn't a thing in China either.

Fourth, the second half of the said sentence "...their equivalent word for "continent" has a rather different meaning which can be interpreted as "a major division of land including islands" (leaning towards a region) rather than "land associated with a large landmass" (leaning towards a landmass)" is dubious to say the least, because it contradicts the preamble of this very article that states "A continent is any of several large geographical regions. Continents are generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria.".

Therefore I request the complete removal of the said sentence as totally factually wrong . 2A0C:5A81:E10C:E00:3DA3:E3E0:BD65:76D4 (talk) 16:49, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.

I agree that there are contradictions and the claims in the article are unsourced (I just added {{citation needed}} tags, but foreign language Wikipedia pages are circular and not reliable sources. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:13, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

• Comment I am Chinese. I can confirm that Oceania is considered a proper continent in China. The Chinese article you have quoted is a direct translation of the German article, it doesn't represent the Chinese definition, it represents the German definition instead.

The thing is, continent in English is confusing. Similar to what you said about the Russian language, in Chinese, we also have two words for "continent", one is called "大洲" (Da Zhou), another one called "大陆" (Da Lu). "大洲" (Da Zhou) is generally translated to "continent", but in Chinese, "大洲" (Da Zhou) has a clear definition, it means a "large land region", so islands are included. We have seven "大洲" (Da Zhous): Asia, Europe, Africa, North America, South America, Oceania, and Antarctica.

"大陆" (Da Lu) can also be translated to "continent", but it has a different meaning, it means "mainland", and islands are excluded. We have six "大陆" (Da Lus): Eurasia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and Antarctica.

In other words, we consider Oceania to be a continent (大洲/Da Zhou), we also consider Mainland Australia to be a continent (大陆/Da Lu), but we don't consider Australia (continent) (something which is smaller than Oceania but bigger than Mainland Australia) to be a continent. In fact, we don't even have a word for Australia (continent), this thing simply doesn't exist in the Chinese language. We do have a word for Australasia though, it is called "澳大拉西亚", which includes Australia (country), New Zealand, and New Guinea (including both Papua New Guinea and Western New Guinea). It is considered one of the four subregions of Oceania, along with Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia.

If we look at the meaning of continent in English, it is very confusing, because it seems to be a "region", but somehow it also relates to a "mainland". We don't know what exactly a continent means, so we translate both "大洲" (Da Zhou) and "大陆" (Da Lu) to "continent". 2001:8003:9100:2C01:8D5:B620:D6B2:B901 (talk) 09:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2023

The “Area and population” section of this article has all the areas quite precise e.g Asia’s land area is listed as precisely 44,614,000 square kilometres and Africa’s exactly 30,365,000, as opposed to being rounded. The only exception to this is Europe, which for some reason is listed as “10,000,000” in km2, and therefore 3,900,000 in square miles. Per Europe’s article, Europe is 10,180,000 square kilometres or, in square miles, 3,930,000. Why is Europe randomly rounded down in size while the others aren’t? Oceania is listed as precisely as the ones (8,510,926). I therefore ask for Europe’s land area in the table in the “Area and population” section of this article to be changed to 10,180,000 km2 and 3,930,000 sq mi, in line with the others.

Thank you 2A00:23C6:95CE:B401:E1C7:EEB3:AD96:2A9 (talk) 21:25, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

A map illustrating various definitions of the boundaries between Europe and Asia

Have you read the intro of this section? It says:

"The following table provides areas given by Encyclopædia Britannica for each continent in accordance with the seven-continent model, including Australasia along with Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia as parts of Oceania."

All area figures are directly from the Encyclopædia Britannica. For some reason, it gives a rough figure for the area of Europe, but more precise figures for all other continents. My guess is because there is a dispute in regard to the exact location of the Asia-Europe border.

The Encyclopædia Britannica has always used Line A as the Asia-Europe border, but Lines B & F are the one used by most sources these days. Therefore, in order to not complicate things, the Encyclopædia Britannica just states that the area of Europe is approx. 10,000,000 sq km.

P.S. The area of Oceania given by the Encyclopædia Britannica is also controversial, it doesn't include the area of Western New Guinea (administered by Indonesia). The area of Oceania in physical geography is approx. 8,970,000 sq km. 203.46.37.2 (talk) 03:45, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

An excellent response, thank you for clarifying 2A00:23C6:95CE:B401:DD28:C35:6D38:580F (talk) 14:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2024

Can someone change the Olympic Flag colour reasons from "Segements of the world" to "Colours represented on all the flags of the World? please? (cos it's correct). 2001:8003:6DB5:A800:68BD:F0D1:8FE9:F2BB (talk) 10:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: I couldn't find the phrase you're referring to in the article. Can you say which section it is in? Liu1126 (talk) 12:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Continent models

The approach that separates Europe and Asia while combining North and South America is also taught in (at least) Germany (if not other Germanic-language countries).```15:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC) 199.127.133.181 (talk) 15:33, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• Source? 2001:8003:9100:2C01:8D5:B620:D6B2:B901 (talk) 08:44, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

You’d really need a better source for it than “take my word for it”. Germany has many different education systems. Does that apply to all the federal states? Joe vom Titan (talk) 21:55, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it is time to replace Australia (continent) with Oceania?

Including Australia (continent) as one of the seven continents on Earth is somewhat old-fashioned. In this article, the orginal editor tries to convey the idea that "In the English-speaking countries, Australia has been recognized as a proper continent instead of Oceania". This is not true. I am currently sitting in a library, in front of me is the 2010 edition of the Times Atlas of the World. On page 4 (first page after the table of contents), it states: "The continent of Oceania comprises Australia, New Guinea, New Zealand and the islands of the Pacific Ocean."

The current trend in mainstream geography is to treat continents as large geographical regions (i.e. islands are included as part of the continent) instead of large single-piece landmasses (i.e. continental mainland excluding islands). I can see more and more countries, including the English-speaking countries, include Oceania as one of the continents instead of Australia (continent), which people often confuse with the country of Australia. I reckon we should align with the mainstream by replacing Australia (continent) with Oceania. 103.228.188.122 (talk) 04:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Defining what is included in Oceania seems to be as problematic as including Oceania as a continent. Some sources include e.g. Japan and the Aleutian Islands in Oceania. I think the question "what is in Oceania?" should be resolved before attempting to answer the question "is Oceania a continent?". GeoWriter (talk) 15:00, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

posted in an old chat above. This seems like the most appropriate place to put it.

The source cited states most people call the continent "Australia", this isn't the case. The source refers to it as "Oceania (sometimes referred to as Australia)". Whilst Australia may be a continental plate this is different to our naming of continents. Eg. India, Fiji and Carribbean each have a continental plate but aren't continents. Conversely, Eurasia is one plate.

Oceania encompasses a number of different plates and would therefore be more fitting if we are sticking to naming conventions rather than listing every continental plate. 77.101.134.93 (talk) 18:16, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the actual source, there is a sort of blurb at the top of the page that says "The continents are, from largest to smallest: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Oceania (sometimes called Australia)." but the main text of the article says "A continent is one of Earth’s seven main divisions of land. The continents are, from largest to smallest: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia." --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 19:24, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Also, the box with the images lists one slide as "Australia & Oceania" and states that "Australia is the largest landmass on the continent of Australia." --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 19:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Oceania

Is Oceania a continet? 180.249.200.170 (talk) 03:11, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Depends on which system you are using. In the one I was taught, it isn't.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 20:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

the source cited states most people call the continent "Australia", this isn't the case. The source refers to it as Oceanic (sometimes referred to as Australia). Whilst Australia may be a continental plate this is different to our naming of continents. Eg. India, Fiji and Carribbean each have a continental plate but aren't continents. Conversely, Eurasia is one plate. 77.101.134.93 (talk) 18:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Did you read the actual article or just the weird blurb at the top? Because the ARTICLE says Australia. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 19:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

In English the continent is Australia and the islands of the Pacific which are included within the geographical description called Oceania are not considered part of the Australian continent. Mostly because they are not continental by any description. Andrewgprout (talk) 22:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

In some non-English-speaking countries, yes. Since both Asia and Europe (which are parts of the same landmass) have been classified as separate continents, I see no reason why Oceania, a region comprises one landmass (Australia-New Guinea), one submerged landmass (Zealandia), and three large island groups (Melanesia, Micronesia, and Polynesia), wouldn't be considered a continent. 2001:8003:9008:1301:14DC:3024:190E:8638 (talk) 13:58, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

This is simply not true. New Zealand is not part of the Australian continent, for example, and nor are Fiji, Samoa, the Cook Islands, etc. The colour-coded map at the top of the article is entirely wrong in this respect.Newzild (talk) 04:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Oceania is not a continent, it is a region. SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Information in the "Number" section does not say a word about Oceania, neither explains why it is shown grey on the color map. JSoos (talk) 10:05, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

I propose we switch the map from saying Australia to Oceania. 165.234.101.98 (talk) 14:44, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Oceania isn’t a continent. It’s a region. The colour-coded animated map incorrectly shows Oceania as part of Australia. Newzild (talk) 22:40, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Australasia was the original proposed name for the continent of Australia, New Zealand and New Guinea. There are maps that use the term still, but Wikipedia's Oceania usage has caused many to recognise that as the continent name instead.

Maybe a note saying that the continent in the Asia Pacific region has multiple names is warranted? 2A04:4A43:8DDF:FC32:E9A4:F5A1:B11E:E076 (talk) 22:19, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Did your geography class in England teach you that New Zealand is a part of a continent called Australasia? I always thought Australasia is just a subregion of Oceania. 2001:8003:9100:2C01:8D5:B620:D6B2:B901 (talk) 10:23, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Not true. Australasia was not proposed is terms of “continent”(s).

Australasia is a simple term that means south of Asia, and it commonly meant Australia and New Zealand, with variable inclusion of New Guinea. SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:17, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Why is India not a continent?

Why is Europe a continent while India is not? Europe and Asia are parts of the same tectonic plate. There are no major geographical barriers between Europe amd Asia. On the other hand, India has its own tectonic plate and is totally separate from the Eurasian mainland by significant geographical barriers.

It is time for the world to rewrite its geography books. The seven continents on Earth should be: Africa, Antarctica, Australia, Eurasia, India, North America, and South America. 120.16.165.48 (talk) 00:14, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

While I agree with you (except id also add the middle east) wikipedia isn't the right place to reccomend changing how we teach geography. Gaismagorm (talk) 00:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

There are no significant geographical barriers separating the Middle East from the Eurasian mainland. 120.16.99.77 (talk) 15:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah but it feels right. i mean, there also arent seperating europe from asia, but the cultural difference is large enough, and the middle east has a significant culture difference Gaismagorm (talk) 15:56, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, in terms of cultural geography, India, China, the Middle East, and Europe should all be their own continents. 120.16.99.77 (talk) 13:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

A continent is a physical geographic concept. China, the Middle East, and Europe can all be major cultural geography regions, but to call those "continents" is just blatantly wrong and stupid. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 15:53, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

It is not. The word "continent" is a cultural concept. Europe is a cultural region. There are no major geographical barriers between Europe and Asia, why are they considered separate continents? Why is India not consider a continent? Why is Greenland not considered a continent? The point is, if we divide the world into cultural regions, then India, China, the Middle East, Latin America, and the Pacific Islands can all be their own continents. 120.16.99.77 (talk) 00:41, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Possibly so, but Wikipedia is not the forum to argue for such a change, Wikipedia reflects the consensus among external sources. CMD (talk) 01:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 May 2024

Change " and also in Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Japan, Pakistan, the Philippines, Suriname, parts of Europe and Africa." to " and also in Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Suriname, parts of Europe and Africa."

See e.g., https://www2.nhk.or.jp/school/watch/clip/?das_id=D0005310861_00000 https://www.jamstec.go.jp/sp2/column/05/ N7soc (talk) 19:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done At least in the physical book I own were reliable. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 13:51, 29 May 2024 (UTC)