Talk:Constantine Diogenes (pretender)

Constantine Diogenes (died 1094) -> Constantine Diogenes (pretender)

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page to Constantine Diogenes (pretender), per the discussion below. There is clear consensus for a move, and the "(pretender)" disambiguator enjoys the most support. Dekimasuよ! 08:18, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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• Constantine Diogenes (died 1094) -> Constantine Diogenes (pretender) –

I suggest this person should be moved to Constantine Diogenes (pretender), years of birth or death are regarded as a last resort for disambiguation. --Relisted. Gh87 in the public computer (talk) 21:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC) PatGallacher (talk) 01:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

• Comment I personally think that the disambiguation (pretender) looks and sounds daft and I don't personally see an advantage in moving. When viewing WP:CONCISE as "The goal of conciseness is to balance brevity with sufficient information to identify the topic..." I think it is possible to use Constantine Diogenes (pretender to the Byzantine throne). There are pages with the (pretender) disambiguation but see also the likes of Albert, Margrave of Meissen (1934–2012) (redirect Albert, Margrave of Meissen (pretender)) Gregkaye ✍♪ 13:20, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose – On its own, the proposed title that would be the target of the move is not particularly informative, as Gregkaye points out. It is neither shorter than the current title nor substantially more useful. (The article could probably use a little more information before we begin to worry about the title.) I would probably not be opposed to a move to a more descriptive title, but as I mentioned, the word "pretender" on its own is unclear as a disambiguation. --V2Blast (talk) 06:41, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I recently noticed that there is an article for another such pretender to the Byzantine throne, Pseudo-Alexios II. How do sources refer to the pretenders in question? I'm just curious. --V2Blast (talk) 06:48, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

• Support move to Constantine Diogenes (pretender) or Pseudo-Constantine Diogenes. The date of his death is actually unknown, so a move is necessary either way. Constantine ✍ 15:45, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

• Reply In view of recent additions, I now propose a move to "False Diogenes", by analogy with similar impostor pretenders like False Dmitriy I and False Margaret. PatGallacher (talk) 21:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

• Except that "False" is never used in English-language literature for Byzantine impostors. Pseudo- is, and this was not the only Pseudo-Diogenes around (as is mentioned in the article). Constantine ✍ 22:11, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
• False Diogenes v. Pseudo-Diogenes? No big deal. If we get articles on more than one Pseudo-Diogenes we would have to consider how to disambiguate them, but we should cross that bridge when we come to it. It's unclear when this person died, so we can't use that for disambiguation. PatGallacher (talk) 12:19, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

• So what is the problem with using "pretender" or "impostor" as disambiguation? Why not deal with the issue in a straightforward manner now and be done with it? There's no reason to re-cross the same bridge a few months/years down the line. Constantine ✍ 18:01, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I moved the page but I was reverted. I had no idea this discussion existed. Since the man did not die in 1094, I don't understand why anyone would want to preserve a plainly inaccurate title. Everyking (talk) 04:16, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

The current title is clearly not supportable. The reasonable alternatives which have been proposed are False Diogenes, Pseudo-Diogenes, and Constantine Diogenes (pretender), I do not have a strong preference but I would prefer them in that order. I do not think Constantine Diogenes (pretender to the Byzantine throne) is reasonable, it is unnecessarily wordy, there is no pretender to any other throne of that name. PatGallacher (talk) 00:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, put me down in favor of "Constantine Diogenes (pretender)", then. I hope we can go ahead and wrap this up, because it's pretty dumb of us to know we have an inaccurate title and not fix it promptly. Everyking (talk) 04:12, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

• Why not Constantine Diogenes (imposter)? --George Ho (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
• Support per Everyking. Covers the issue adequately. Current title is clearly wrong. DeCausa (talk) 22:55, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.