Talk:Confederate Monument in Louisville

Pics and list of Registered Historic Places

I have a few more pics to use, which I'll put up later. Also, I think on List of Registered Historic Places in Kentucky (Jackson County to Lyon County) we need to make Jefferson County its own separate article. (No one saw me mention it, so I thought it best to mention it here.)--Bedford 22:55, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Probably makes sense due to the large amount of such places in Jefferson County. Have at it. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 22:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

It has been done: List of Registered Historic Places in Jefferson County, Kentucky--Bedford 07:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Who's on top? "And what is "aging?"

There are illustrations of the two soldiers at the bottom, but all we get is a tiny distant view of the soldier at the top, and from the back at that. Who's on top and what does he look like? Also the illustrations of the bottom soldiers say "note the aging." What is "aging" of a bronze statue? Dirt? Dents? Corrosion? Or just patina? Absent a reliable, non- original research opinion, I will remove the comments about "aging."Edison (talk) 01:23, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

The figure on top is a generic infantry soldier. Few days ago the AP printed a retraction after an article went out stating the figure was Jefferson Davis. Kintpuash (talk) 16:46, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Figure on top believed to be a modeled after Judge Reginald Thompson, placed text in article with cite. Kintpuash (talk) 04:32, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Yandell controversy

In 1895, the Confederate Veteran mentioned David Yandell, Enid's apparent uncle, was a member of the monument executive committee. Dr. Yandell founded the Louisville Medical Institute. [[1]] This is too much first person research to put into the article. But it is possible the sexism charge is a 20th century extrapolation. Kintpuash (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

von Miller

The 1956 KHS research article is clear that von Miller, the Younger was the artist rather than his father. The template on the photos at the bottom of the page still show the father. Hoping someone can fix this efficiently. My template skills are lacking. Kintpuash (talk) 18:13, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 13 December 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, as there is no consensus for this change, unless and until the official name of the monument changes in the National Register of Historic Places or sources determine that a new common name is in use. Confederate Monument in Brandenburg is created as a redirect. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bradv 14:13, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

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Confederate Monument in Louisville → Confederate Monument in Brandenburg – The monument has been fully moved to Brandenburg, Kentucky from the previous location in Louisville. Citations for the move in the article. Naming convention of other pages for monuments in Kentucky follow with just the town name. Moving a monument such as this is a bit unprecedented so I could anticipate an argument as to why should not change (121 year history in Louisville). But it seems to me, it would generate more confusion keeping it the way it is. Kintpuash (talk) 08:03, 13 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. Bradv 04:29, 1 January 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. -- Dane ^talk 04:39, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

• I'm concerned that this rename runs counter to the history of this monument being in Louisville.for well over a century. Is there a name we can use that mentions both cities or none? Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 22:06, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
  • That is not something I considered. Perhaps something like "Kentucky Women's Confederate Monument" to reflect the organization name, or "Confederate Monument of Louisville and Brandenburg?" --Kintpuash (talk) 00:20, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Another possibility, Confederate Monument of Louisville in Brandenburg.--Kintpuash (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
    • Good ideas. Also consider perhaps Confederate Monument of Louisville (Brandenburg, Kentucky), so it retains the NRHP name and shows the current location. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 17:30, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
      • NPS site is down at the moment, was trying to link the 1997 nomination (as opposed to the 1990 description). At any rate, the late Edna Macon in her 2011 book including all known CW monuments in KY lists the monument as Louisville Confederate Monument, how about Louisville Confederate Monument (Brandenburg, Kentucky)?--Kintpuash (talk) 20:22, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
      • Forgot to explicitly mention, I think Confederate Monument of Louisville (Brandenburg, Kentucky) is very acceptable.--Kintpuash (talk) 19:24, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
• Comment. Is it not just called the Confederate Monument? That seems to be the usual name in sources. "Confederate Monument in Louisville" just seems to be a colloquial description and is not how we usually entitle things on Wikipedia. If so, it should actually be entitled Confederate Monument (Brandenburg, Kentucky), our usual naming convention for structures in the USA. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:16, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
  • The monuments, at least in Kentucky, are following the National Register of Historic Places Reference Titles, a full list available here List of American Civil War monuments in Kentucky. I have no idea, when, if ever, the monument would be submitted for another review to ascertain what they might call it.--Kintpuash (talk) 18:59, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Again, the monument stood in Louisville for over a century and was by no means obscure while there. While the structure of this title fits a guideline, it is at the same time incomplete. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 17:24, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• According to the sources used in the article, including this National Register document about the Belknap University and including the Encyclopedia of Louisville entry on "Confederate Monument", it is named "Confederate Monument". So the article should be "Confederate Monument" plus necessary disambiguation, hence "Confederate Monument (Brandenburg, Kentucky)". There should be a redirect from Confederate Monument (Louisville, Kentucky). By the way, the article should not have been at "Confederate Monument in Louisville"; that name was a manufactured, coined term used in a temporary way and not used in practice by the general public. Just like we in Wikipedia should not use wp:neologisms that we coin, that should not have been elevated. --doncram 18:21, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
  • What is "Belknap University"? I think you mean the Belknap Campus at the University of Louisville. Further, I will not accept a mere redirect to hide the century's worth of history of this monument being in Louisville. This is essentially a Louisville monument that got moved to a new locale very recently. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 20:06, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• Move to Confederate Monument (Brandenburg, Kentucky). It's clear that it's just called the Confederate Monument (often just Confederate monument). I've expressed before how there is too much reliance on blindly using NRIS titles without regard for common sense or Wikipedia titling policy. kennethaw88 • talk 23:28, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
• Move to Confederate Monument (Brandenburg/Louisville, Kentucky) or something similar that preserves the history of the monument being in Louisville for well over a century. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:42, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
• Move to Confederate Monument of Louisville (Brandenburg, Kentucky) The monument, as a significant landmark, had a long and complicated history in Louisville. Sources reflect that, referring to it in the late 19th and early 20th century as variously, Louisville Confederate Monument, Confederate Monument of Louisville and Confederate Monument in Louisville. Name should continue to reflect that history.--Kintpuash (talk) 23:50, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
• No move  Confederate Monument in Louisville (Brandenburg, Kentucky) would work, but there is another option here which is to give more time for the world at large to weigh in.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:16, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
• Move to Confederate Monument of Louisville (Brandenburg, Kentucky) per Stevie and Kintpuash. If the monument isn't in Louisville anymore, the current name is inappropriate. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:09, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Relisting: There appears to be consensus that the current name is inadequate, but no consensus on what to change it to. Bradv 04:29, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. Moved, dismantled or destroyed monuments (such as Stalin Monument (Prague) or Stalin Monument (Budapest)) continue to be identified by their well-established locations. Others, such as Statue of Queen Victoria, Sydney, are identified by their subsequent locations. When the National Register of Historic Places officially renames the monument, the main title header of the Wikipedia article would be moved. In the interim, the header Confederate Monument in Brandenburg would redirect to the Confederate Monument in Louisville article, where the lead paragraph already indicates details regarding the move. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:40, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

The NRHP doesn't give official name status to anything. If this article was about the listing or nomination form, that could be officially named, I suppose. I'm quite sure it was already known as the Confederate monument for the 102 years it wasn't NRHP-listed. kennethaw88 • talk 03:54, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Relisting - Consensus is still unclear and one more relist might not be bad to help solve this and avoid a no consensus close. -- Dane ^talk 04:39, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.