Talk:Communion of saints

Definition

It seems to me that Martin Luther rejected Maccabees, precisely because he believed that the church on earth could not affect the condition of people who had died. Therefore, no indulgences were necessary.

Protestants believing in a similiar manner, therefore, confess to a belief in "the communion of saints," (Nicean Creed) but it doesn't mean much (is meaningless) since we cannot pray to saints for intercession, nor can we affect their existence.

While the belief of Catholics is presented, the article does not present the belief of (non-catholic) Protestants. Or does the article present the belief by not saying anything? Student7 03:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 17:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Communion of Saints → Communion of saints – "Saints" is not a proper noun, see Saint and WP:NCCAPS. JFH (talk) 02:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support. I believe there is no version of the Apostles' Creed that capitalizes "the communion of saints". If anything is official, that must be. Esoglou (talk) 08:16, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Saints in Purgatory?

But How? Isn't this a complete contradiction in terms? Is there something to read on this? Ioan.Church (talk) 12:00, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@Ioan.Church: This article already contains the statement:

In Catholic terminology, the communion of saints is thus said to comprise the church militant (those alive on earth), the church penitent (those undergoing purification in purgatory in preparation for heaven), and the church triumphant (those already in heaven).

The term saint in this context must be understood not as one who has attained the glory of heaven, but all believers who are blessed (sainted or sanctified) by God.

Further reading can be found at Church militant and church triumphant that describes this concept as found among Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican theologies. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:10, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks User:WikiDan61, do you know of any books or articles available about Saints in Purgatory which I can read please? Ioan.Church (talk) 13:16, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@Ioan.Church: This article from the Catholic Encyclopedia might be a good start. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, User:wikiDan61 I am going to put that in as a ref in the article to prevent idiots like me removing it in future. Ioan.Church (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Nothing idiotic here. Just different users discovering new things they didn't know before. That's why I edit Wikipedia -- I learn so much in doing so! WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Spiritual Christian view?

These two statements smack of Jehovah's witness doctrine(in the reference hover over it-1 254) but are not clearly put forth as such: the 144,000 sealed in the book of Revelations, as distinct from the countless multitude from every nation, tribe, people and language who attain salvation. As such I wonder if they have any place here as the tone of this writing is more didactic than encyclopedic.

The following is a quote from the official Jehovah's Witness website:

The vision given to the apostle John, as recorded in Revelation, harmonizes with this when, after showing John the 144,000 “sealed” ones, it turns his eyes to “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” These are shown as having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” indicating faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. (Re 7:9, 14) They are therefore given favorable recognition, “standing before [God’s] throne,” but are not those whom God selects to be the “sealed” 144,000. As to this “great crowd,” the vision goes on to point out that they serve God day and night and will be protected and will be cared for by him.—Re 7:15-17.

Kellnerp (talk) 11:45, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

References

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"Gemeine" should be "Gemeinde"?

The quoted text by Luther doesn't conform to current German usage. "Gemeine" is the indefinite plural form of "Gemeiner" (commoner). The parish community is "Gemeinde". I don't have the actual quote at hand, though. Jorganos (talk) 09:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Methodists and Lutherans

I see that the "Very High Church Methodist Editor" has been at it again. I wish s/he would cease.

Most Methodists, of any variant, would be surprised to learn that they "pray for the dead". Methodism stems from Anglicanism - and inherited the Church of England's ambivalence about prayers for the dead. Most modern Anglican churches accept the concept of offering prayers for the dead to a limited degree, but not all. Anglo-Catholic Anglicans simply copy Roman Catholic practice. Methodists can be said to "commmend" the dead to God's mercy and keeping, but this is very different from offering prayers for the dead. Prayer for the dead supposes that the dead need our prayers. If they do, the dead are not in heaven but in an intermediate state, such as purgatory. But Lutherans and Methodists (and nearly all Protestants) do not accept this docctrine. Examples of Protestants that do believe in purgatory include C.S. Lewis and the Methodist theologian Jerry Walls. But they are the exceptions. IACOBVS (talk) 00:13, 23 October 2024 (UTC)