Talk:Commodore 16

Comparison to TI-99/4a

   On paper, the C16 is a closer match for the TI-99/4A than the aging VIC-20

How is the C16 considered a closer match to the TI?

   TI-99/4a
   32 hardware sprites
   16 colors
   SN76489 PSG

   C16
   No hardware sprites
   121 colors
   2 tone generator

I admit the resolution is a closer match, but I would put the scale like so:

   VIC-20 • • • C16 • • • • • • • • • • TI-99/4a

The C16 certainly had some things going for it...especially over the VIC-20. But I wouldn't call it a quantum leap. The hardware sprites of the TI and the PSG really put it in a different class above them both. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbmeeks (talk • contribs) 12:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

In your own line there you put the C16 closer to the TI-99 than the VIC-20. I think you're interpreting the original phrase incorrectly; I read it as, "The C16 compares to the TI-99/4A better than the VIC-20 compares to the TI-99/4A." Cjs (talk) 06:53, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

market

>>"The C16 was intended to compete with other sub-$100 computers from Timex Corporation, Mattel, and Texas Instruments (TI). Timex's and Mattel's computers were less expensive than the VIC-20, and although the VIC-20 offered better expandability,[3][4] a full-travel keyboard, and in some cases more memory, the C16 offered a chance to improve upon those advantages. The TI-99/4A was priced in-between Commodore's VIC-20 and Commodore 64, and is somewhat between them in capability, but TI was lowering its prices. On paper, the C16 is a closer match for the TI-99/4A than the aging VIC-20."<<

This is just a mess. Timex left the market before the C16 was even released, the Mattel Aquarius barely sold at all and the Adam was much much more expensive. The TI99 was a much more expensive 16 bit machine that had been around for ages and was sold miles below its cost of production. The Vic 20 had the least RAM and expansions were incompatible with each other because the memory changed.

The C16 had the same resolution as the C64 but a simpler and less idiosyncratic kernal, expandable without the memory problems of the Vic. Its main competition would have been the 16k Atari 400.101.178.163.92 (talk) 02:59, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

"Raison d'être"???

What the heck does "raison d'etre" mean? Might want to change this header. --Anonymous

Thanks for mentioning it; I've now put in a lk to Wiktionary's definition of the term (which means "reason for existence"). --Wernher 23:05, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

C116

Should really be given greater mention in the article. Or at least a picture would be nice. The C116 was actually the normal or original version of this computer, intended to combat the low-low-low-cost market at the time taken by ZX-81s and Spectrums. Some managerial muppet though it would never sell in America so they got the Japanese engineering department to make the C16 for the American market. They're the same exact computer just in different cases (presumably they figured the ubiquitous 'breadbin' witha proper keyboard would sell better than the sleeker new 264/+4 case with dead-flesh keys).

It's sad really, the whole TED series debacle is a cringe-inducing story. Seek100 00:03, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Binary prefixes

Recently changes have been made to this article to use binary prefixes (KiB, MiB, kibibyte, mebibyte etc). The majority of reliable sources for this article do not use binary prefixes. If you have any thoughts/opinions then this specific topic is being discussed on the following talk page Manual of Style (dates and numbers) in the sections to do with "binary prefixes". Fnagaton 10:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

New photo coming soon

I hate seeing these blasted eBay photos representing some of the best computers ever made.

I uploaded some nice shots for the VIC-20. I will do the same for the C-16 soon.

cbmeeks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbmeeks (talk • contribs) 10:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

best computers ever made? they were cheap. cheaply designed, cheaply produced, and cheaply programmed for. don't confuse nostalgia with quality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 15:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow...this was a long time ago. Anyway, of course you do realize that "best" is a relative term in the context I was using? Of COURSE I realize that these computers weren't TECHNICALLY the best computers ever made. Because what scale are we using? Best plastic? Well, that would fail against metal cases, etc. So I stand by my statement. And, since I never knew about the C16 as a child, how could I have nostalgia for it?cbmeeks 12:43, 23 May 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbmeeks (talk • contribs)

Added better pictures

Much better pictures. I hate seeing eBay/iPix photos of these vintage computers. They deserve better.

~cbmeeks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cbmeeks (talk • contribs) 13:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember seeing this in the Xmas 83 or 84 Service Merchandise catalog, along with the Plus/4 and TI 99/2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.110.223 (talk) 14:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Mexico

The fact that this is unreferenced, combined with assertions like (e.g.) the computer being sold by some chain from "1982" to 1992, when it wasn't even released until 1984, and (e.g.) the discontinuation of the line circa 1992-93 being caused by C= USA's demise (which was later, in 1994) makes me somewhat sceptical of the accuracy of the rest of it. Ubcule (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually I had some mistakes about the article I wrote about Mexico. I just have only several flyers scans I found recently in my basement and scanned one of them to prove that Commodore actually as sold in Mexico. I did made some corrections to the article but it seems that I need cite a book or magazine, which I do not have. If you find that the material I have do not meet the criteria of Wikipedia, please remove it. It's very difficult to gather information since Aurrera Supermareket become part of Wallmart on 1993 and they removed all old history of the chain. Also my English is not perfect.

Other memory of Commodore in Mexico can be found on http://old-computers.com/museum/doc.asp?c=97&st=1 I want to know if I can still scan and post the flyers here or remove this info from the page. Which would be a shame, since no page talks about of Commodore in Mexico too. Lobocursor Comment added 04:43, 27 February 2011 (UTC).

I removed the direct references to the title "castillos de Arena" and "pancho villa", since I played them on the computers when I was kid but I cannot get a reference unless I try to gather from old newspapers the contest winners result. This will take time. Also I found that Wallmart brought Aurerra and change it to Bodega Aurrera on 1995. I did read proof the article for avoid more mistakes on dates. Any help in how to assemble the info I have will be appreciated. Lobocursor Comment added 05:11, 27 February 2011 (UTC).

Hi,

I removed the bit about Aurrera and Grupo Sigma post-1993 (again), as those bits were not pertinent to the article subject, i.e. the Commodore 16 itself.

Regarding the article scans- there are two classes of material that Wikipedia can use.

The first is "free" material (licensed under GFDL or CC licenses by the copyright holder). Anyone can use this for anything if they obey the license.

The second type is "fair use" material. This is *not* freely-licensed (i.e. copyright holders have *not* granted permission). However, US law still allows the use of such material for certain purposes.

If the supermarket has not given permission, then your scans are probably "fair use". This means that you can upload the flyers to Wikipedia itself. However, you can not upload them to Wikimedia Commons (because Commons is for completely free images and material only).

Please read the links about the difference between "fair use" and "free" material if this is unclear. Thanks.

Hope this helps, Ubcule (talk) 15:36, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi,

Actually I regret to write on Wikipedia thanks Ubcule that made my life miserable. I did removed the ad as I have no permission to add it to this place in the start. Actually I didn't invent that Commodore made computers in Mexico, but I'm too tired to defend myself of people like user mentioned. If you don't like info I did posted, please just delete it or do whatever you like. I'll post the ads and local manuals in the proper commodore pages that have friendly users that really welcome the info. I had my share of Wikipedia Trolls and I had enough. Farewell. - Lobocursor

Commodore never was in Mexico, OKAY! Now let me get out HERE!!!! >:-( — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lobucursor (talk • contribs)

*Before* I reply- I had to move your comment (originally made here) so I could restore several older comments of yours which you removed. Removing comments- even if they're your own- is generally against the rules. We were having a discussion, and people need to be able to see what I was replying to. (I earlier thought you had removed *my* comment. That was my mistake- sorry). Ubcule (talk) 00:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

(Here is my reply)

You've some made some unpleasant (and baseless) accusations. I assume you were talking about the most recent set of edits to the article (even though they are already over 8 months old!). Perhaps you should stop and take a look at them:-

* Edit #1 - I moved the reference to make it clearer which part of the sentence it supported

* Edit #2 - The article subject is the Commodore 16. "Aurrera Supermarkets" are mentioned because they sold the C16- this is fair. However, their later history (long *after* they had stopped selling the C16) is *not* relevant to the C16 itself. Therefore I *only* removed that part. I had already explained this before.

* Edit #3 - I added a link. (I assume that this was okay!)

We had some polite disagreement earlier, as I felt you had added a *lot* of information without citations. However, I thought we had resolved this. Apart from the inclusion of too much irrelevant information about Aurrera (not related to them selling the C16) I was happy with your contribution.

Your image had been "fair use" but not "free". I moved it back to Wikipedia so that we could continue to use it.

You will see from my replies that I attempted to be polite and good-natured (even though we disagreed), but you are throwing accusations of "harrassment" and "troll" at me.

Ubcule (talk) 00:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Units Sold?

How many of Commodore 16 were sold? Does anyone have reference(s)? Please add to the "unitssold" field of the infobox, similar to Commodore 64 and Commodore 128. Thanks. • Sbmeirow • Talk • 11:31, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Commodore 16 001.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:21, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Disputed content in "Video" section and elsewhere

In these edits, User:120.20.219.194 added two new sections, including the "Video" one where it is claimed that "The TED computers used the same video output as the Commodore 64." Not sure what's meant by this, but the graphics capabilities obviously *weren't* the same on the C16 and C64.

It then goes on to say "16 colours in 4 luminance levels" which to me sounds like it's saying the C16 has the same colour palette as the C64. As far as I'm aware, this is inaccurate- and contradicts what is referenced elsewhere- i.e. that the C16 has a much larger 121 colour palette.

The fact that this- and the BASIC- section were added unreferenced in these edits from anonymous User:120.20.219.194 makes me far more sceptical of the rest, and I'd have no problem removing the lot if it can't be backed up or verified by someone more familiar with the computer than myself.

Elsewhere, I note that this user also added that "[The TED chip] was essentially a "computer on a chip" - only memory and control chips were external". Since- as far as I'm aware- the CPU itself was a separate chip, this claim is somewhat excessive and misleading. (Even if the CPU is considered a mere "control chip", it's the heart of the computer).

Ubcule (talk) 20:50, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

I have rewritten the "computer on a chip" paragraph. (I am not the original author of it, BTW.) As you point out, the TED is obviously nothing like the SoCs that were previously referenced in that paragraph, and it's far less integrated even than the microcontrollers of the day (which included CPU, ROM, RAM and I/O), so it's fair to say that it's certainly not an SoC or similar. That said, microcontrollers of the day didn't include video or designed-in sound functionality, so this may have been an early step towards that. The confusion over "system on a chip" may have arisen from Bil Herd's comments along those lines; I've referenced and quoted him in my rewrite and explained where the reality fell short of the intention.

I also cleaned up the following paragraph describing some TED capabilities and comparing them with the C64. I've removed the comparison with the VIC chip/VIC-20 since I see no point in that; the VIC and VIC-II had the same number of colours.

I'm guessing that "used the same video output" simply means that the connectors for the cable were the same. I'll have a go at fixing this area later if nobody else gets to it first.

Cjs (talk) 03:20, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Argentina

Commodore 16 was sold in Argentina by Drean, a home appliances manufacturer. The computer was sold under the name "Drean Commodore 16". It started selling in 1985 in local home appliances stores, as well as the "Drean Commodore 64". The main difference from the original USA model is the TED (Text Editing Device) chip, responsible for audio and video, that was adapted to local TV standard PAL-N. The box and the user manual were distributed in spanish, and many games were also translated into this same language and sold as cassettes branded by Drean. External devices such as the 1531 Datassette or the 1341 Joystick were also sold under the same brand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarianoApicella (talk • contribs) 23:34, 1 October 2020 (UTC)