Talk:Comfort women/Archive 3

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US Troops' Use of Comfort Women Post WWII

please see the following article for additional information regarding the use of the comfort women by U.S. troops stationed in Japan until the spring of 1946: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/25/comfort.women.ap/index.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.145.108.11 (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

• Japanese government is also responsible for Japanese comfort women who were forced by Japanese government to be prostitutes for US soldiers. I think Yakuza ordered by Japanese government forced poor Japanese women to do horrible things. Japanese government should stop hiding historical facts and apologize to the victims.
  • The Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA, 特殊慰安施設協会), or more literally Special Comfort Facility Association, was the official euphemism for the prostitution centers arranged for occupying U.S. armed forces by the Japanese Government after World War II. . The RAA was created on August 28, 1945 by the Japanese Home Ministry to contain the sexual urges of the occupation forces and protect the main Japanese populace from rape. The RAA's own slogan was "For the country, a sexual breakwater to protect Japanese women" (お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波堤).220.76.64.144 03:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• American soldiers were innocent consumer who didnot notice that Japanese government was committing a crime.

Here's the google cache of CNN article. It's not true to state that the Americans were innocent and unaware that the comfort women were being forced into sexual slavery. Many knew, and ignored it. Parsecboy 22:44, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

This service is well known. It was created by the Higashikuni governement on 19 August 1945. The official declaration stated : «Through the sacrifice of thousands of "Okichis" (an historical character) of the Showa era, we shall construct a dike to hold back the mad frenzy of the occupation troops and cultivate and preserve the purity of our race long into the future...» --Flying tiger 23:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Korean comfort women & Japanese comfort women

I would like to see how Congressman Mike Honda will accuse US Government and US Army in terms of Japanese comfort women who were forced to be prostitutes for US soldiers. Because Honda is currently accusing Japanese Government about Korean comfort women, he should also accuse US Government also. This is the violation of human rights of women. If Honda does not accuse, it will not fair. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Strongestgeorge (talk • contribs) 20:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

• Japanese government is also responsible for Japanese comfort women who were forced by Japanese government to be prostitutes for US soldiers. I think Yakuza ordered by Japanese government forced poor Japanese women to do horrible things. Japanese government should stop hiding historical facts and apologize to the victims.
  • The Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA, 特殊慰安施設協会), or more literally Special Comfort Facility Association, was the official euphemism for the prostitution centers arranged for occupying U.S. armed forces by the Japanese Government after World War II. . The RAA was created on August 28, 1945 by the Japanese Home Ministry to contain the sexual urges of the occupation forces and protect the main Japanese populace from rape. The RAA's own slogan was "For the country, a sexual breakwater to protect Japanese women" (お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波堤).

• American soldiers were innocent consumers who didnot notice that Japanese goernment was systematically committing a crime.220.76.64.144 03:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Link needed

to International Commission of Jurists, when protection's lifted. Bolivian Unicyclist 14:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

new victim stand out

new victim in Jiangsu, China stands out

You know, not everyone understands Chinese. Is there a Translation? Ah, and by the way please sign.--LordofHavoc 06:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Congressman Mike Honda should accuse Japanese Government and Home Ministry of Japan for Japanese comfort women who were forced by Japanese government after WWII to be prostitutes for US soldiers.

The Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA, 特殊慰安施設協会), or more literally Special Comfort Facility Association, was the official euphemism for the prostitution centers arranged for occupying U.S. armed forces by the Japanese Government after World War II. .

The RAA was created on August 28, 1945 by the Japanese Home Ministry to contain the sexual urges of the occupation forces and protect the main Japanese populace from rape. The RAA's own slogan was "For the country, a sexual breakwater to protect Japanese women" (お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波堤). In September, the system was extended to cover the entire country. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.76.64.144 (talk) 03:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Sankei newspaper article falsely accused US Army through faulty translation

They translated permitted in AP article into 命じた ordered in Japanese version

産経の古森義久記者は、「日本の政府や旧軍当局に売春婦の調達や売春施設の開設を命じた一連の日本語書類」が発見されたと書いていますが、APのリンク先の記事だと「An Associated Press review of historical documents and records - some never before translated into English - shows American authorities permitted the official brothel system to operate despite internal reports that women were being coerced into prostitution.

Facts about comfort women

A group of Japanese lawmakers in a full-page ad[1] in the Washington Post on June 14 denied the Japanese government and military had a hand in conscripting women from Asian countries as sex slaves for the Imperial Army during World War II.

• FACT 1: No historical document has ever been found by historians or research organizations that positively demonstrates that women were forced against their will into prostitution by the Japanese army. On the contrary, many documents were found warning private brokers not to force women to work against their will.
• FACT 2: There are many newspaper articles, moreover, that demonstrate that these directives were dutifully carried out.
• FACT 3: There were admittedly cases, though, of breakdowns in discipline. On the island of Semarang in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), for instance, an army unit forcibly rounded up a group of young Dutch women to work at a "comfort Station." The station was shut down under army orders, though, when this incident came to light, and the responsible officers were punished. Those involved in this and other war crimes were subsequently tried in Dutch courts and received heavy sentences, including the death penalty.
• FACT 4: House Resolution 121 sponsored by US Representative Mike Honda and other charges of Japanese maltreatment of "comfort women" are mostly based on testimonies by former ianfu. In none of their initial statements are there references to their being coerced to work by the army or other units of the Japanese government. Their testimonies have undergone dramatic changes, though, after the start of the anti-Japanese campaign.
• FACT 5: The ianfu who were embedded with the Japanese army were not, as is commonly reported, "sex slaves." They were working under a system of licensed prostitution that was commonplace around the world at the time.

Ikedanobuo 07:55, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Humble request

Of course these FACTS have been thoroughly checked. So would you please provide us with the exact sources for Semarang being an island? I feel very ashamed: nearly three centuries of Dutch colonialism and we failed to notice. Both the Dutch and the English Wikipedia with their flawed governance still seem to believe that is just a city. But lucky for us there are always Japanese government documents to help us out.

In the improbable case of an error in the blog or the advert: no sweat, people make mistakes. Admit them, correct them, period. Maybe you might want to check other statements too. However I feel that considering people untrustworthy for making a mistake in a statement would be unfair. Especially in the case of highly educated middle aged men enjoying peacetime tranquillity;-)

♥ Stuart LaJoie → talk2me 13:39, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

What are "Facts" for Japanese?

Some Japanese think that the only credible source of historical evidences is 'OFFICIAL JAPANESE IMPERIAL ARMY's DOCUMENT'.

They think numerous living victims can't be historical evidences. (Many of them are dying everyday because of their age. Maybe this is what the Japanese are looking for - 'no living victims and no one can dispute them')

Do you really think that WWII Japanese army officials are kind enough to leave the official historical documents stating that 'We are war criminals'? --Crmtm 22:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ted bundy never admitted to killing people... until they found the bodies of course. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2007-03/12/content_824829.htm The Nazi's tried to destroy all documents relating to the Holocaust, they did have a slight problem with the bodies though and the live prisoners, I understand, Japan is having the same problems too.

Crmtm, Your country Korea can send the gulag the person only by the testimony. However, there is a system that is called a trial in Japan. The Japanese values the testimony and evidence. By the way, Korean people doesn't protest against Holocaust of North Korea at all. Is the purpose of Korea's relating Japan to Nazis to cheat Holocaust by Korean? --Azukimonaka 20:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Azukimonaka, your political and legal systems are largely infected by ultra conservatives and it is unlikely to get some positive results from it. Also, sometimes trivial technical issues prevent legal system to make its morally justified results. I want to say to you this - You may "legally" don't have to feel sorry about victims because you didn't do wartime atrocity firsthand and the only connection between you and the war crime is just the fact that you are Japanese. You can't be punished by law. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you are "morally" justified if you try to deny the war time atrocity out of some pathetic patriotism. Moreover, what you are mentioning is a Japanese legal system, not Korean one. How arrogant you are to say victims "come over here Japan get trial under a Japanese legal system if you have any problem with us. If you don't want it, just shut up.". --Crmtm 22:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

And about your North Korea comment, we all know that North Korea has serious issues about human rights. Many South Koreans are criticizing and harshly protesting against North Korea (go to google images search and enter 'south north korea protest'. You can get some pictures of them). But you probably haven't heard about that from Japanese media because it's not even a news. Everyone knows that North Korean government is the craziest one!! In contrast, you Japanese have a fully democratic government and, therefore, when your government act like this (like a loser), it becomes news. Simple fact. --Crmtm 22:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Crmtm,　I like neither plot theory nor feelings theory. Moreover, Japan can freely discuss it. Therefore, the Japanese cannot satisfy the demand of "Just shut up". (When "Just shut up" is used in your country, you will be sent to the gulag.)

South Korea never supported the document though European Union submitted the resolution to criticize the human rights of North Korea to United Nations Commission on Human Rights in 2003-2005 (three times).

However, In the general meeting of IPU in 2005, South Korea and North Korea submitted a joint resolution that ordered the apology and compensation to Comfort women in Japan.

If you hope, I introduce a joint criticism of South Korea and North Korea further. 　　--Azukimonaka 10:29, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

"Japan can freely discuss it" -> Nope, in Japan, politicians get shot to death. See[[2]],[[3]]. Personally, in speaking of "freedom of speech," I think neither Japan nor Korea has it when you go deeper. So starting your argument with "your country korea sends people to gulag" is quite ..err.. what's the word..icky?Merumerume 15:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Azukimonaka, I don't understand your comment 'When "Just shut up" is used in your country, you will be sent to the gulag.'. I am a South Korean and we don't have a gulag.

South Korean government supported 2006 UN resolution. It's true that we didn't support (and didn't oppose) to resolutions prior to 2006. That's because it has no practical mean to improve "actual situation of North Korea" while there is potential harm to be used by North Korean authority as a propaganda against South to its people. For Japan, there is vast sea between North Korea and Japan and it's very easy to just criticize North Korea without hesitation. However, South Korea and North Korea confront each other with enormous millatary forces divided by tiny few-kilometers of demilitarized zone (Also, even this isn't demilitarized at all). Therefore, South has taken steps toward North very carefully because - while we definitly want to improve lives in North Korea, we don't want to pay a huge price for South Koreans by aggravating and breaking the balanced situation. Azukimonaka, you can blame others based on superficial facts and your ignorance. But please be more careful next time. --Crmtm 16:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

This is a farce

That the litany of Japanese war crimes includes the serial rape and degredation of women from occupied areas is irrefutable. The Canute like efforts of these deniers here is reprehensible and worthy of trenchant criticism if not banning outight. I understand that this is what has happened to some deniers of the Holocaust perpetrated my forebears, the Germans, and their allies at the same time. Why can't we do this in this case instead of the this silly edit protect that pervents me form adding recently documented information on the activities of the Japanese in Rabaul. The edit protect should be removed and if someone serially disrupts the page ban them even if they are a BS MBS PHD from Tokyo or anywhere else for that matter. Albatross2147 00:17, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

False Logic

Fact One

Does not prove there was no sex slavery, only that no records now exist. It is a logical falsity to move from “no records” to no “sex slavery”.

Fact Two

That some action was undertaken against sex slave brokers in no way can be used to demonstrate that all sex slave brokers were stopped. It does, however, establish at least one instance of sex slavery.

Fact Three

One instance of closing a brothel does not imply, as the authors wish to imply, that all were closed, only that one was. It does, however, establish that at least one was opened and staffed by forced sex slaves.

Falsified Fact3 Responsible officers were not punished by Japanese authorities.218.153.114.49 16:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Fact Four

That some women openly agreed to prostitution, the oldest of professions, does not prove that the many others are lying when they say they were forced to it.

Fact Five

That some were treated well does not deny the claims of hundreds and thousands of others who say they were badly treated and forced to it. That the Japan Authorities provided services to American Occupation GIs has no bearing on the claims of those unfortunate women.

Conclusion:

Nothing in these five facts contradicts the evidence of the women who testify they were forced into sex slavery. To pretend otherwise is to be complicit in the actions of your ancestors. I wish all Japanese well. I am British and proud of much my ancestors did, but I am not part of the wrongs they simultaneously did. BSOz 04:00, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Falsified FACT3 ( Just warning for a crime of rape)

real FACT 3: Responsible officers were not punished by Japanese authorities.

They were punished by Dutch later and received heavy sentences, including the death penalty.

Get facts straight on comfort women

The Yomiuri Shimbun[4] Editorial

The U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee has adopted a resolution demanding an apology from Japan over the so-called comfort women. But the resolution was based on an erroneous perception of the facts.

The resolution calls for the government to accept historical responsibility and apologize for "its Imperial Armed Forces' coercion of young women into sexual slavery." It describes "the comfort women system" as "one of the largest cases of human trafficking in the 20th century."

The resolution was made without verifying the facts and smacks of cheap rhetoric. It makes us doubt the intelligence of U.S. lawmakers.

In past studies, no evidence has been found showing "coercive recruitment of comfort women by military personnel or government officials". The government explicitly presented this observation in March in response to a question by an opposition lawmaker.

Ikedanobuo 00:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Whose "us"? Are you representing someone? Please do not turn this serious debate into your personal game of "us" versus "them" as that would be very silly. Alot of facts on human experimentation done by the Nazi's were not found either.

grammar correction

The debate over the existence, size, and nature of sexual slavery by the Japanese military during World War II continues to be debated.

The debate isn't debated, The facts are. could "to be debated" be removed from the end of this sentence so the whole thing just reads as

"The debate over the existence, size, and nature of sexual slavery by the Japanese military during World War II continues"

It is necessary to define slavery first. The discussion will not end at all if slavery is not defined. --Azukimonaka 20:24, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Japanese revisionist's logic: Not enough evidence to prove Hitler's responsibility for Holocaust

"However despite many years of investigating the documentation the third reich were so thorough in producing, there has never been any written proof that any order was given by Hitler at this or any other meeting or conference. Arguments that no documentation links Hitler to "the Holocaust" ignore the records of his speeches kept by Nazi leaders such as Joseph Goebbels and rely on artificially limiting the Holocaust to exclude what we do have documentation on, such as the T-4 Euthanasia Program and the Kristallnacht pogrom." quoted from Holocaust article in Wikipedia.

Japanese revisionists keep saying that there is no official hard document to prove the accusation. - Comfort women demanding justice 17:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Allied Conduct

I was hoping to add the section on American use of comfort women but alas the article is currently locked so I'll just dump my stuff and some additional comments here for the time being.

Before I begin, let it be clear that it is not my intention to attempt to downplay Japanese activities by relativising them, but it would indeed be good if more people realized that it was a quite different time then.

First, I've noted that the article needs a context section on the legal situation at the time.

E.g. stating what the Japanese position on the matter was: "the Japanese Government has forcefully denied legal liability on a number of substantive grounds, the most significant of which include: (a) that recent developments or advances in international criminal law may not be applied retroactively; (b) that the crime of slavery does not accurately describe the system established through the "comfort stations" and that the prohibition against slavery was not, in any event, established as a customary norm under applicable international law at the time of the Second World War; (c) that acts of rape in armed conflict were not prohibited by either the Regulations annexed to the Hague Convention No. IV of 1907 or by applicable customary norms of international law in force at the time of the Second World War; and (d) that the laws of war would only apply, in any event, to conduct committed by the Japanese military against nationals of a belligerent State and would not, therefore, cover the actions of the Japanese military with respect to Japanese or Korean nationals, since Korea was annexed to Japan during the Second World War (ibid.)."[5]

• • According to your logic, many Jewish people were Nazi German nationals. The laws of war would only apply, in any event, to conduct committed by the German military against nationals of a belligerent State and would not, therefore, cover the actions of the German military with respect to German Jews who were nationals of Nazi Germany??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.134.207.82 (talk • contribs).

If you had bothered reading what I wrote properly, you would have seen that I did not make a stand either way, I just wrote that it is important that we also portray the official Japanese legal position, which is the text I quoted. And besides, as far as I know the killing of German Jews were not "war-crimes", they were "crimes against humanity" --Stor stark7 ^Talk 19:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

You are right. Japanese Imperial Army committed "crimes against humanity" in this case.

Second, it should also note that the position on rape was not as severe then:

" The history of twentieth-century warfare has shown, though, how little formal and customary laws of war have been observed—and how rarely they have been enforced. The Soviet Army raped its way across Prussia and into Berlin in the final days of World War II, yet Moscow's military judges took a victor's place of honor on the bench at Nuremberg. In fact, the founding statute of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg made no specific reference to rape, relying on language prohibiting inhumane treatment to encompass rapes committed by Nazis. And the companion tribunal in Tokyo phrased its provision for war crimes jurisdiction in highly general terms, "namely, violations of the laws or customs of war.""[6]

What the author is referring to in Germany is the possibly as many as two million German women and girls that were raped, often repeatedly, by members of the Soviet Army. (see Norman Naimark, "The Russians in Germany" for further reference.)

• • Unlike Japanese, most german people don't think that they were victims of WWII. Because they inflicted much more damage to neighbors.
  • On the contrary, ultra right wing Japanese think that they were victims of WWII ignoring the fact that they inflicted innumerable civilian deaths in neighboring countries.
  • Even defense minister of Japan admitted that atomic bombing was inevitable to end the war.(2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.134.207.82 (talk • contribs).

So? The Germans bend over backwards to forget the 2,000,000 mainly women and children that died in the ethnic cleansings that followed the Allies decision to redraw Europes maps, they try to forget the soldiers and civilians that were used for years as slave labor in France, Brittain, Poland and the Soviet union. They forget the 2,000,000 rape victims They forget the years of starvation when the allies were busy punishing them and destroying their economy. If the Japanese do the opposite I frankly don't care, maybe it even averages out in the end.

Japanese government under allied occupation enjoyed a lot of autonomy and freedom unlike brutal Japanese rule over Japanese occupied areas.

Bottom line, contemporary legal opinion is one thing, current Japanese acknowledgment, or lack thereof, of what happened in the past are two completely different topics in the context of this article.--Stor stark7 ^Talk 19:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Third, the section that also should be added, that on the U.S. occupation forces use of comfort women that I see has already been discussed above.

• Uncomfortable truth: US also used Japan brothels

"After its surrender -- with the tacit approval of US occupation authorities -- Japan set up a similar "comfort women" system for American GIs." ""The strategy was, through the special work of experienced women, to create a breakwater to protect regular women and girls."" "Amid complaints from military chaplains and concerns that disclosure of the brothels would embarrass the occupation forces back in the United States, Gen. Douglas MacArthur placed all brothels, comfort stations and other places of prostitution off limits on March 25, 1946. The RAA soon collapsed. MacArthur's primary concern was probably not a moral one. By that time, according to Tanaka, more than a quarter of all American GIs in the occupation forces had a sexually transmitted disease."

See also the article Sex Slaves for American GI’s Accepted Mass Rape--“Peacefully”?

• • Sorry, RAA was established by Japanese government, not US Army. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.134.207.82 (talk • contribs).

Don't be sorry. What do you have to be sorry about? Are you saying that the fact that the U.S. army used comfort women is not notable enough to include in this article? Then I'm sorry, but you seem to have misunderstood how Wikipedia works. Besides, I was under the impression that since Japan was occupied by the U.S. then supreme authority was in the hands of the U.S. i.e. the RAA was an organization subordinate to the U.S. Thus the Comfort Women brothels were in fact run by U.S. occupation authorities by delegation.--Stor stark7 ^Talk 19:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fourth, the stated reason for the brothels, that of protecting Japanese women and girls from rape makes sense if you for instance look at the U.S. troops behavior during the war and initial occupation. I wonder if the use comfort women protected other nationalities from rape by Japanese soldiers.

"For instance, rape--which is considered a way to sharpen aggressiveness of soldiers, steeling male bonding among warriors, and, moreover, "reflects a burning need to establish total dominance of the other" (p. 211)--was a general practice against Japanese women. "The estimate of one Okinawan historian for the entire three-month period of the campaign exceeds 10,000. A figure that does not seem unlikely when one realizes that during the first 10 days of the occupation of Japan there were 1,336 reported cases of rape of Japanese women by American soldiers in Kanagawa prefecture alone" (p. 212)."[7]

Generally speaking the U.S. attitude towards Japanese soldiers, and presumably also the girls and women, seems to have been that they were not really human.

• American troops murdered Japanese PoWs
• She named the love gift Tojo from LIFE magazine, 5/22/44 p.35 "Picture of the Week". Her boyfriend sent her home an autographed souvenir, and she was proud enough to let LIFE magazine print it. LIFE seems to have found the activity perfectly normal for an average American of the time.
• Skull trophies of the Pacific War: transgressive objects of remembrance
• MACABRE MYSTERY

And fifth, certainly of little relevance but I seem to be on a roll; a quote by the war corespondent Edgar L. Jones that should hopefully lead to some reflection.One War Is Enough

WE Americans have the dangerous tendency in our international thinking to take a holier-than-thou attitude toward other nations. We consider ourselves to be more noble and decent than other peoples, and consequently in a better position to decide what is right and wrong in the world. What kind of war do civilians suppose we fought, anyway? We shot prisoners in cold blood, wiped out hospitals, strafed lifeboats, killed or mistreated enemy civilians, finished off the enemy wounded, tossed the dying into a hole with the dead, and in the Pacific boiled the flesh off enemy skulls to make table ornaments for sweethearts, or carved their bones into letter openers. We topped off our saturation bombing and burning of enemy civilians by dropping atomic bombs on two nearly defenseless cities, thereby setting an all-time record for instantaneous mass slaughter.

As victors we are privileged to try our defeated opponents for their crimes against humanity; but we should be realistic enough to appreciate that if we were on trial for breaking international laws, we should be found guilty on a dozen counts. We fought a dishonorable war, because morality had a low priority in battle. The tougher the fighting, the less room for decency, and in Pacific contests we saw mankind reach the blackest depths of bestiality.

--Stor stark7 ^Talk 01:04, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

NO ORGANIZED OR FORCED RECRUITMENT: MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT COMFORT WOMEN AND THE JAPANESE MILITARY

Hata Ikuhiko, Professor Emeritus, Nihon University[8] Excerpts:

Here we will focus on the testimony of Lee Yong-soo, who lives in Seoul at Nanum House, a home for former comfort women. Ms. Lee has visited Japan several times to tell her story. Here are some excerpts from her testimony at the hearing:

Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift [sic] without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. [Italics added]

Since there is no evidence of kidnapping by a government authority, we must assume that the young women were deceived by Koreans — their compatriots. The fact that no Japanese living on the Korean peninsula had sufficient command of the Korean language to deceive a Korean woman lends even more credence to this assumption.

Ikedanobuo 02:54, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

U.S. Army's "Comfort Women" in the Vietnam War

From Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape, Ballantine Books, 1993

By 1966, official military brothels had been established within each division’s camp. Each one was a two-building “recreation area” where 60 Vietnamese women lived and worked. The prostitutes decorated their cubicles with nude photographs from Playboy magazine and had silicone injected into their breasts to make the American soldiers feel more at home.

Ikedanobuo 03:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous analogy with the Holocaust

Read the archives of this discussion where many editors advised not to repeat such foolish analogy with the Holocaust denial. There are hundreds of criminals who confessed they committed Holocaust. For example, see the 9 1/2-hour documentary Shoah. On the contrary, there is no witness in Japan who confessed he abducted comfort women except for the liar Yoshida.

Moreover, as Mr. Hata showed above, ex-comfort women in fact didn't prove the abduction by Army's order. Even the witness at the U.S. Congress said they followed the broker voluntarily. Ikedanobuo 03:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

• Hitler didnot confess. There is no hard evidence to condemn Hitler according to your logic.

I notice you choose to omit the testimonies of veteran Yasuji Kaneko who confessed again this year having himself raped women during the Seisen in China and the proofs made public in April by Yoshimi such as the written testimonies of members of the Tokeitai and of Lt. Seidai Ohara of the Kempeitai, who admitted on 13 January 1946 having established a comfort house and abused himself women in Indonesia. [[9]] Unfortunately for you, there are other historians than Hata who are working on the subject... --Flying tiger 00:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

If you can read Japanese, you can enjoy the super-adventures of Kaneko who raped thousands of women in Nanjin atrocity and killed hundreds of Chinese in the 731 unit and murdered thousands of innocent people all over the Pacific ocean. It was obviously illegal but he was not punished in any court because he was a liar. He is a famous laughing matter in Japan. Ikedanobuo 02:54, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

RAA was created by Japanese government and was shut down by Gen. McArthur.

Some Japanese are also trying to downplay the role of Japanese government in establishing RAA. Why would Americans try to to create a breakwater to protect ordinary Japanese women? The RAA was created on August 28, 1945 by the Japanese Home Ministry. The RAA's own slogan was お国のために日本女性を守る性の防波堤 "For the country, a sexual breakwater to protect Japanese women".

Jewish prisoners went to concentration camps voluntarily to make money according to Japanese revisionist's rationale?

According to Ikedanobuo, Jewish prisoners went to concentration camps voluntarily because there are no official concrete evidence that coercion existed. THe prisoners were also given food and accommodations. Victims' testimonies donot count according to Ikedanobuo's rationale.

There is no credible oral evidence

It's a great advance for consensus that you agree that there is no hard evidence of abduction by the orders of Japanese Army. Moreover, there is no oral evidence according to Mr. Hata's close examination of the Korean witness at the Congress hearing.[10]

Here is the testimony of Lee Yong-soo, who lives in Seoul at Nanum House, a home for former comfort women. Ms. Lee has visited Japan several times to tell her story. Here are some excerpts from her testimony at the hearing:

Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I lift [sic] without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. [Italic added]

Mun Ok-chu (now deceased) was immensely popular among the Japanese soldiers, from the rank-and-file soldiers to generals. In less than three years, she managed to save up 26,000 yen and sent 5,000 yen home to her family. At that time, the average salary of a Japanese Army sergeant was 30 yen per month.

Another witness, Kim Koon-ja's foster father (a Korean police officer) told her to go out and earn some money at the age of 16. Kim met a Korean man who told her he had a good job for her. Many other ex-comfort women's "testimonies" assembled by Prof. Yoshimi are similar stories that poor parents sold their daughters to brokers. So we must assume that the young women were deceived by Koreans.

And the case of Ms. O’Herne was settled more than 60 years ago. Dutch military court decided that the crime was not ordered by the Japanese Army but an abuse of low-level army officials (they were punished personally). Ikedanobuo 01:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

• Mr. IKedanobuo. Are you saying that Germans can deny holocuast and stop apologizing to Jewish people because the issue was dealt with in Nuremberg Trials? Don't you think that your rationale is ridiculous?
• Moreover, Japanese Army didnot take measures to prevent rape by Japanese soldiers. Severe punishment for raping Japanese women. Almost no punish ment for raping non-Japanese women.

Japanese Army didnot punish soldiers who raped Non-Japanese women

Japnaese Imperial Army had double standards

• Severe punishment for raping Japanese women.
• Almost no punishment for raping non-Japanese women.

Ten Dutch women were taken by force from prison camps in Java by officers of the Japanese Imperial Army to become forced sex slaves in February 1944. They were systematically beaten and raped day and night in so called "Comfort Station". Even the Japanese doctor visiting the brothel "Comfort Station" to examine for veneral disease participated in the rape. Although they were returned to the prison camps within three months upon protest of the Dutch prisoners against the Imperial Army, the officers were not punished by Japanese authorities until the end of the war. Only after the end of the war 11 Japanese officers were declared guilty with one sentenced to death by the Batavia War Criminal Court run by Dutch.

A group which demands Abe to full withdraw Kono statement

The Meeting of The Citizens who Demand The Full Withdrawal of Kono Statement handed petition with signatures of over 7000 people to primeminister Abe.YODAFON 13:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Arabic Link

ar:نساء المتعة (اليابان)

U.S. Congress urges 'comfort women' apology

On July 30, U.S. Congress have called on Japan's government to formally apologise for its role in forcing thousands of women to work as sex slaves in World War II. The non-binding resolution was passed during a voice vote in the House of Representatives.

According to IHT[11], Tom Lantos, chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs, called "nauseating" the efforts by some in Japan "to distort and deny history and play a game of blame the victim." But the ex-comfort women said only that they might have been victims of somebody who sometimes wore "military-like suits". Ex-comfort women can't prove there were military orders to coerce them. And there are no document or testimony on the side of military officials that they ordered coercion. Ikedanobuo 02:41, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Nauseating denial (BBC news)

The resolution calls on Japan - one of the strongest US allies in Asia - to "formally acknowledge, apologise and accept historical responsibility in a clear and unequivocal manner" for the suffering of the women.

• Earlier this month, a group of Japanese lawmakers demanded the US government retract the resolution, saying it was based on "wrong information that is totally different from the historical fact".

• Tom Lantos House Committee on Foreign Affairs chairman
  • Those who posit that all of the comfort women were happily complicit and acting of their own accord simply do not understand the meaning of the word rape
  • Tom Lantos, chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs, described attempts to deny the use of sex slaves as "nauseating".
  • "There can be no denying the Japanese imperial military coerced thousands upon thousands of Asian women," Mr Lantos said.

BBC news [12]

It's more nauseating hypocrisy that American politicians make a false accusation of Japan with no historical evidence. In WW2, Japan after the war, and Vietnam, the U.S. Army employed thousands of "comfort women" in the battlefields. And it's even more nauseating that the country killing tens of thousands of innocent people in Iraq blames the prostitution more than 60 years ago. Ikedanobuo 02:06, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

"No historical evidence"? You must be joking. And you clearly have no conception (or are in denial about) the distinction between sexual slavery and ordinary prostitution. Now that's what I call nauseating. Grant | Talk 04:05, 1 August 2007 (UTC)