Talk:Cleveland Guardians

Included Names

Are all of these names included: Sonny Siebert, Steve Hargan, Sam MacDowell, Rick Sutcliffe; Leon Wagner, etc. -- 65.223.141.108 (Talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:08, October 29, 2004 (UTC)

The Impossible Return??

'The Impossible Return' is quoted twice on the page, once in the body of the article and once in the trivia referring to the Indians 12-run comback against Seattle in 2001. I am from the Cleveland area and quite an avid follower of the team (and watched the specific game this refers to). I do not recall anyone (newspapers, broadcasters, fans, etc.), during or since refer to this game as 'The Impossible Return'. It seems like something sweet the person added to the article to give it some flavor -- but it should be backed up with fact that it used by an outside source, which is a wikipedia rule. If it cannot be backed-up, it should not be titled as such. If you say: 'The Drive', 'The Fumble', 'The Shot', sports fans know exactly what you are talking about. Say: 'The Impossible Return', you might get a puzzled look at best. BarenakedKevin 16:08, October 26, 2007 (UTC)

As of 11/15/2007 - 'The Impossible Return' will not be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BarenakedKevin (talk • contribs) 21:28, November 15, 2007 (UTC)

Nationality of Players

Main page: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball § Nationality of Players

Given the fact that baseball is becoming an increasingly more international sport (i.e., more non-U.S. leagues in existence, more non-U.S. players in the MLB), the roster formatting on Wikipedia should probably be updated to reflect that. If you look at the formatting for other international sports (such as soccer), the player nationalities are indicated using flag icons. I think this would be a beneficial update to each of the major league rosters in the MLB, it would not be too difficult to implement and it would not clutter the information on the page. However, before such change a change is implemented, I thought it would be healthy to achieve at least some form of consensus on the talk page for each team. yuristache (talk) 01:10, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Larry Doby Statue.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Name Change

Should we already be changing the name of this page to the Guardians?? The name change is to take effect with the 2022 season. They are still the Indians for the remainder of the 2021 season. swinquest (talk) 14:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

The name should stay "Cleveland Indians" for now though I've noted the new name in the lead sentence. -- Fuzheado | Talk 14:24, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks El_C for protecting the page from further moves and edits until things settle down. -- Fuzheado | Talk 14:33, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Article name needs to stay "Cleveland Indians" until the team's name change is official. The team is competing as the "Indians" for the rest of the 2021 season. I am not sure when the name would "officially" change, whether it be after the Indians' final game, after the World Series, on January 1, or the start of Spring Training next year. But the team itself (along with MLB) is the authority on this matter, so as long as the team keeps calling itself the "Indians" (e.g. on Twitter), the title of this page should remain Indians.Frank Anchor^Talk 15:20, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Agree that this page (and related navbox templates) should retain the name as is until the official change over takes place during the offseason. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

They just announced it’s changing the name to the Cleveland Guardians. Chriscrimson (talk) 17:59, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, for the 2022 season. This information is in the article. They are still the Indians now. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:58, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Is it possible that the name change will be cancelled?? Georgia guy (talk) 22:47, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Anything is possible.. but that is very unlikely. Spanneraol (talk) 23:15, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

More to the point however is that the name change is announced for the future. Today, they still use the current name, ergo the article name stands. Echoedmyron (talk) 00:24, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

According to my sources the name change from the Cleveland Indians to the Cleveland Guardians will not officially take place until right before the beginning of Spring Training 2022, even though the team names on the jerseys and the inside and outside of Progressive Field and Goodyear Ballpark will be changed in the offseason before Spring Training 2022. Saved by God's grace (talk) 22:55, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

In addition before any name change, I also would like to see a resolution to a possible trademark dispute with a Cleveland Guardians roller derby team, who currently own the clevelandguardians.com domain name and "Cleveland Guardians" social media accounts.[1][2] Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:07, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

It is very possible that such a resolution will not be publicly available. Also possible that such a resolution either already exists or both sides are active and close in negotiations, as evidenced by mutual silence when on the issue when the media requested comments. [3] The change to "Guardians" can take place once they are officially recognized as the "Guardians" (such as by MLB.com) which should occur in the offseason Frank Anchor^Talk 17:53, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

The trademark issue won't be a problem. The idea that the team's and MLB's lawyers just glossed over it is preposterous. The reason the roller derby team hasn't publicly commented on it is a non-disclosure agreement. From Terry Pluto of The Plain Dealer: "From everything I’m told from top MLB sources, there is no problem with the Tribe’s new name in terms of trademarks, etc. In fact, there was a delay of about a week before announcing the name as the team and MLB were clearing up the last of these issues." See here. --JonRidinger (talk) 20:27, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

My guess is that Pluto is probably right about the trademark rights, but there have been some pretty big screw-ups in the area where you'd think, as Pluto does, that a reasonably competent law firm would have checked on this (for example, that time when NBC adopted as its logo the same logo used by a Nebraska educational TV system). And sometimes, some very good general law firms think they know everything, and don't bother to bring in an IP specialist who actually does know better. Even outside of legal issues, sometimes some really amazing mistakes get made, like the time George Mason University School of Law renamed itself the "Antonin Scalia School Of Law", failing to notice the acronym "ASSOL" (they recovered, changing the rename to "Antonin Scalia Law School" before it was official, but only after faux pas was well-publicized in the press). So, it's not always the smart money to bet against a stupid oversight.

And the other two squatters are probably just trademark trolls who will get bought out.

Still, it's not for us to predict in the article; we can amend the article when the issues are cleared up. TJRC (talk) 00:16, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Update: the two squatters (90/383,728 and 90/052,176) have each abandoned their applications, one after an opposition by the Indians; but docket-checking is WP:OR and I haven't seen any mention in the press, so have not updated the article. I'm guessing money changed hands.

The article notes that the roller derby team had filed suit. The Indians' answer to the suit is due November 17; I'll be keeping an eye on the court docket and the news for any non-primary source to the extent worth mentioning. The roller derby team has also filed a trademark registration of its own, no. 90/850,953 (July 27, 2021). It's currently sitting in the PTO's queue awaiting examination (as are the Indians' applications, nos. 90/844,546 and 90/844,557 (both July 23, 2021). TJRC (talk) 00:46, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2021

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Title change: Cleveland INDIANS > Cleveland GUARDIANS with a 'redirect from Cleveland Indians' note. The MLB website is already updated with the new name. The fact that the change happens more formally in the 2022 season does not suggest that the main title of this page should continue with the outdated information until then. Thanks. Cleguard (talk) 17:18, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Incorrect. MLB.com has not changed the site, it's still at https://www.mlb.com/indians. MLB.com has an article saying the name change will happen after the season. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:20, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Aside: At time of writing, https://www.mlb.com/guardians does not exist. —C.Fred (talk) 17:47, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes I did notice that as well. The team will continue to wear jerseys that say "Indians" for the remainder of the season, and none of the other branding will change until the offseason as well. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:51, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Regular season home attendance: combine the two tables

The section "Regular season home attendance" has two subsections and tables: one for "Jacobs Field" and one for "Progressive Field". Since Jacobs Field and Progressive Field are the same place (just renamed) it makes sense to have a single table ("Jacobs Field / Progressive Field"). Any objections? TJRC (talk) 20:31, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

No objection from me. It's the same ballpark. oknazevad (talk) 20:04, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Name change official announcement video inclusion

Should it be included somewhere in the article, or should it be left out because it's a primary source? Mapsax (talk) 23:41, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

It should be left out because it is surely copyrighted by the team. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:52, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Using it as a reference or EL doesn't involve copyright. That's my intent. Mapsax (talk) 22:57, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, that we should use the tweet itself as a reference for the name change. On one hand, it's a primary source and we tend to prefer secondary and tertiary sources when they're available (and there is plenty of them here). On the other hand, for a significant thing like this including it as a source is probably a good place to just make a judgement call and say do it. oknazevad (talk) 00:39, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh I see. I misunderstood. I agree it's probably better to leave out as we prefer secondary sources to primary. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:08, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, then I offer https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2021/07/tom-hanks-lends-his-voice-to-cleveland-guardians-announcement-video.html, though that focuses as much on Hanks as the video. Mapsax (talk) 01:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Definitely not a problem to use that source. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:00, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Mmm, never mind. After review, it appears that the Paul Hoynes article linked from the lede is appropriate enough. At least there's now an alternate source if we need it. Thank you for your time.... Mapsax (talk) 21:01, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2021

Should the Indians wiki be changed to the Guardians? 162.219.93.106 (talk) 03:43, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

• No. See above. --Hammersoft (talk) 04:10, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Cleveland Indians

I want to extensively edit the Cleveland Indians Wikipedia page to change it to the Cleveland Guardians. Should I do it after the 2021 season concludes for the Cleveland Indians (since is doesn't look like they are going to make the playoffs), or should I wait until the conclusion of the 2021 MLB season, after the World Series? I would like a consensus on this (WP:Consensus) on my talk page, please. Saved by God's grace (talk) 00:48, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Saved by God's grace, definitely not until after the World Series at the earliest. We'll make the change when they make the change. We won't miss it. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 3 October 2021

Cleveland Indians → Cleveland Guardians - "Cleveland Guardians" is the new team name that will begin in the 2022 season at home March 31. ChilisMontrose (talk) 22:49, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

• There is absolutely no need for a RM. We will move the page when they undergo the name change, whenever that is. Their regular season just ended minutes ago. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:51, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

• This can be done AFTER the team officially changes its name to "Guardians," which will be after the World Series at the earliest. Frank Anchor^Talk 22:51, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. Are there some people who are expecting a chance (even if less than 10%) that the name change will be cancelled and that the name "Cleveland Indians" will still be the official name?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:05, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

  It's not about that. It's about having the article reflect the current correct name. If Jane Doe gets engaged to Richard Roe, and says she'll be taking his surname, we still don't rename to "Jane Roe" till it's official. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 00:24, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

  While there are probably some still complaining about any name change for the team, there's no chance that they cancel the name change.

That said, the name doesn't officially change until after the conclusion of the postseason, when the league's new league business year begins, so they are still officially the Cleveland Indians for now. If they were to participate in a trade with another team not in the postseason, for an example that is technically possible, the players received in the trade would be traded to the Cleveland Indians. If such a trade were to occur after six weeks or so, following the World Series, such as at the winter meetings, then the Cleveland-bound players would be traded to the Cleveland Guardians. We can wait on the name change until it's official. oknazevad (talk) 00:29, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

We will wait on the name change until it's official. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:32, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

• Comment As some others have pointed out, this page should wait until the league and/or team actually announces the change. Yes, it's going to happen, but that doesn't appear to be the case until sometime next month, so not necessarily right after the World Series concludes. It may not be an automatic thing where the name changes once the postseason is over. --JonRidinger (talk) 01:47, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
• As I write this, their official site from MLB.com still says "Indians", and their social media accounts (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc..) still say Indians too. I suspect whenever the name change "officially" happens, we'll see all those quickly updated.Canuck^{89 (Chat with me)} 17:42, October 18, 2021 (UTC)

"In popular culture" section

Please add the following bullet point to https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Cleveland_Indians#Cleveland_Indians_in_popular_culture

In the TV Series *How I Met Your Mother*, Ted Mosby is a Cleveland-native and avid Cleveland Indians fan. During the Season 2 Episode *Where Were We?* Ted attends and Indians-Yankees game to root on the Tribe.

Sources:

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Where_Were_We%3F_(How_I_Met_Your_Mother)

https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Ted_Mosby 73.74.145.207 (talk) 04:44, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I was going to decline this as too trivial, but it's actually not much more trivial than some of the stuff already in there. So the real question is: Is there a good reason for this section to exist? Looking at Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees, two significantly more culturally influential teams (sorry, Cleveland fans), neither article has a section like this. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 06:01, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Changing this section's heading to try to spur some discussion. Marking ER as Not done for now; can revisit if the section is kept. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 14:41, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I've removed the section based on a silent consensus. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 04:10, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

@Randy Kryn, re your revert, I did raise the prospect above of removing the section. But that's fine. BRD and all. To eleborate, then, I disagree that there's anything especially notable about popular-culture portrayal of the Cleveland team. There are three works about the team referenced: The Kid from Cleveland, Major League, and Major League II. The other four entries are passing references. There may be a sentence or two that could be added into another section (perhaps § Media?) about those three films, but for a 9,700-word article I don't think things like a single moment from Go Go Gophers are important enough to justify mention, and I also don't think a three-item list would make much sense. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 04:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

(had an edit conflict at the same time you posted your comment, here:) Have added back the section minus a few items, and it could probably lose a couple more. But the films seem non-trivial and are based on the team but are set in fictional universes. Team templates have fictional items in their 'Culture' sections, and many teams could easily have 'In popular culture' sections, and probably should even if short (the Yankees have many prominent films centered around factual or fictional Yankee players and situations). It's just lucky someone decided to put one on this page. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

A three-or-four item section works if the alternate is to not mention the films. They are notable as to the team's history. Randy Kryn (talk) 05:00, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Have reduced the section down to the basics. Seem okay? Randy Kryn (talk) 05:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Lawsuit settled over Guardians name

The issues involving their "rebranding" and the name conflict with the roller derby team appear to be resolved (looks like a settlement has been reached).

Will have to see if the name change takes effect at some point soon (merchandise, website, etc...) Canuck^{89 (Speak with me)} 20:13, November 16, 2021 (UTC)

Per Zach Meisel, the name change will take effect this coming Friday at 9:00 EST. Because the page is semi-protected, there's no risk that a random editor jumps the gun and moves it early, unless the protection is lifted before that time. O.N.R. ^(talk) 21:33, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The article is semiprotected until December and move protected until July. If it's 9am EST, someone else will have to move the page because I live in California and won't be awake that early. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:39, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Should be noted that as of tonight, MLB has moved the Indians assets to the https://www.mlb.com/guardians domain, including on their mobile app, so at the very least, it's web official. Nate • (chatter) 01:32, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

We are almost 15 minutes away from being 12 hours away from the change. I plan on reducing the move protection on the page to 12 hours, 15 minutes from now. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:45, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 Done – Muboshgu (talk) 02:01, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

9am is when the team store opens, but the team website has already been updated to the Guardians name and domain. BilCat (talk) 08:34, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2021

Indians=Guardians 2600:1702:1961:250:CB3:7589:B232:3BBF (talk) 01:24, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

The team name history is currently incorrect

According to this page:

(@https://www.mlb.com/news/cleveland-guardians-team-name-history)

this is the Guardians’ early name history:

“There are records of a Cleveland baseball team that date back as far as 1869, referring to the club as the Forest Citys or Blue Stockings. It wasn’t until 1889 that the team became the Spiders -- a name that’s had a resurgence of popularity among the fan base today -- for a 10-year span. In 1897, the Spiders signed Louis Sockalexis, who became the first Native American in professional baseball. On March 10 of that year, it was written in The Plain Dealer newspaper that Sockalexis was said to be “a fine outfielder and a wonderful batter.” That season, he hit .338 with an .845 OPS in 66 games. But Sockalexis battled alcoholism, and his addiction led to his dismissal from the team in 1899. When referencing the Spiders, the club is often associated with that disastrous 1899 season, during which the team finished 20-134, according to Baseball-Reference. Owner Frank Robison bought the St. Louis Browns and thought a good team there would draw better, according to Baseball Almanac, and shortly before the start of the season, he transferred all of Cleveland's best players to that team, which he renamed the Perfectos.

In that tough 1899 season, Sockalexis played in only seven games before his dismissal. The Spiders had not always been that bad and had played in the 1895 and 1896 Temple Cups (the precursor to the World Series), winning it in '95. By the end of the year, however, the Spiders were dropped from the National League, and Cleveland was without a baseball team. Two years later, the current Cleveland franchise was born, but it had yet to determine a regular nickname. The Plain Dealer had referred to the team as the Babes, Spiders, Buckeyes and Clevelands at different points throughout the 1901 season. It wasn’t until 1902 when the Cleveland Press -- the Plain Dealer’s competitor -- named the team the Bronchos. The Bronchos nickname lasted only one season before the Cleveland Press opened up a fan poll to vote on the Cleveland baseball team’s new moniker. The fans overwhelmingly voted for the Naps in honor of the team’s star player, Nap Lajoie. Buckeyes placed second, Emperors received the third-most votes and names such as the Metropolitans, Giants, Cyclops, Gladiators, Imperials, Armour Clads and Red Devils were also in the running. Lajoie had a tremendous 13-year career in Cleveland, hitting .339 with an .840 OPS, 919 RBIs and 424 doubles, but when he left for Philadelphia in 1915, the club was left in the predicament of needing to come up with a new name immediately. While the tale often has been told that because Sockalexis died in 1913, the team was named the Indians in his honor, but that is unlikely. His years with the Spiders coincided with the club’s decline, and his departure from the team was not the most positive. His stardom in Cleveland was not the same as Lajoie’s, which made it less likely that the team would’ve been named after him.

There are old newspaper records that show that the baseball writers were left to vote on a name and had decided on Indians. In 1914, the Boston Braves had won the World Series, which could leave some to wonder if the name for Cleveland -- the last-place team that season -- was inspired by one that experienced great success. Either way, records have indicated that the Indians name was not intended to be a long-term choice. But after undergoing a handful of different team names over the previous 15 years (and after the team won the World Series in 1920), the moniker ended up sticking for the next 105 years.”

So, in summary, they’ve been named:

(1869-88) Forest Citys/Blue Stockings

(1889-99) Spiders - NL

(1902) Bronchos

(1903-14) Naps - AL

(1915-2022) Indians

(2023-Present) Guardians Mswanson1 (talk) 01:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

The Cleveland Spiders were a different franchise that has it's own article. The various names for this franchise are already mentioned in the info box and the article. Spanneraol (talk) 01:57, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, two separate franchises, one of which folded after the 1899 season amidst controversy. Those names don't apply to the Guardians franchise. oknazevad (talk) 08:25, 19 March 2024 (UTC)