Talk:Clan MacLaren

Change in Leadership

I see that someone without an account reversed my entry of the change in Clan leadership. Chief Donald MacLaren, sadly passed away on June 22, 2023 and named his son, Florian, as his successor to the chiefdom. So I have one again corrected the entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pheigi (talk • contribs) 15:03, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Tidied

Cleaned up categories and rephrased some awkward sentences.

Restored Blog Reference

Restored my blog reference. I am the author of the blog and it meets the requirements for citing blogs in Wikipedia according to this page: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_self-published_blogsPheigi

Elaborated and Clarified

To the section relating the influx of MacGregors into Balquhidder.Pheigi

Corrected External Links

Links were badly formed and kicking back a 404 error as a result. I have corrected the URLs and they are working properly now.Pheigi

Removed Reference to the 1467 manuscript

It does not say what the original poster claims it suggests. The narrative says nothing about whether the Abbot did or did not exist. It speaks to the meaning of the writing and explains the reasoning behind the questioning of that particular translation by Skene. Pheigi

Removed a Further Reading Reference

I have removed a further reading reference, ″McLaurins and McLaren and McLerrans: No matter how you spell it, we are all the Children of 'Laurence' and this is our history″, that I removed once before and was put back in by the author of that book. It has been removed for the following reasons:

As an attempt at re-writing clan history, it is flawed, poorly written and contains anomalies which undermine its reliability as a resource for accurate history. Moreover, the author's approach is one of assertion rather than a coherent weighing of argument. As a result, he fails to offer a balanced and objective study of the available facts.

The citations when they are present are poorly formed and offer little information to allow the reader to investigate further. The bibliography is non existent and many of the sources listings are incomplete, often with so little information as to render them useless. In some cases the author does not even provide the correct title.

Rather than discussing alternative interpretations of the Clan's history, he presents personal opinion as fact. This extends to writing opinion within the source section itself and often failing to include relevant citations to enable the reader to form an independent judgement.

The author is highly selective and regularly distorts material. In one instance, for example, he has chosen to quote several sentences from one source but has taken the sentences out of context; leaving out important discussion by the original author of the source, and failing to note that these quotes are part of a larger entry. Thus he is picking and choosing pieces of historical documentation to support his contention that that documentation is wrong. Such inclusions are misleading and therefore are of little value. They reflect, rather, the author's apparent wish to discredit all but his own view. Thus I do not consider this to be a valid source for further reading and education on Clan MacLaren and its history. Pheigi

Replaced Culloden Stone Image

I have replaced the image which was removed a couple of years ago by MacRory Mor. Simply because you do not agree with the stone's contents does not merit its removal from this page. It is a valid part of the Clan history. The decision as to whose name(s) appear on the stones is not made by the clans. Pheigi (talk) 16:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Removed Dispute

I removed the dispute template as the article is sourced. The initiator of that dispute is known to post under numerous different names in an effort to alter information on this page because he does not agree with the content. Supporting citations are in place in the footnotes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pheigi (talk • contribs) 16:03, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Article is completely unsourced

Please can I make the editors of this article aware that the article is completely unsourced. Wikipedia rules allow any unsourced material to be removed without warning.- And in this case that is the whole article.QuintusPetillius (talk) 16:50, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Yep. There's a problem in the fact that silly stuff, like a clan taking its name from a Dalriadic king, and puffery like 'one of the oldest clans', can be referenced from various books on clans. These kinds of books aren't reliable sources for medieval history. For example, the Battle of the Standard factoid is wrong. I wonder if this blurb originates from James Logan's 19th century writeup on the clan, where he cites the 18th century Lord Hailes about the term "Lavernanis" - one of several named peoples who are recorded by Aelred of Rievaulx to have fought at the battle. Modern scholars regard these particular people to refer to men from Lorne or Argyll, not a specific family like the MacLarens (see Battle_of_the_Standard#Scots_Arrive_and_Deploy).--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 11:04, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

What are your credentials or your studies that enable you to make these statements Brianann MacAmhlaidh. Your page says nothing about you. Pheigi (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

The point about the Battle of the Standard here is half right. It is really silly to suggest that there were MacLarens here (1138) - 100 years before there were any MacLarens at all. However there is no problem with the Earls of Strathearn being from the Cenel Loarn. Freuchie (talk) 16:32, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Article re-write

I intend to re-write the history section of this article soon - with references. I will leave in any existing info that is well referenced. I will be happy to discuss any changes here on this talk page.QuintusPetillius (talk) 12:04, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

B&W Crest Badge displayed is incorrect

Hi The Crest per its description should only have four points of the crown visible not all six. I have an image i can replace it with. Cordially MacRory Mor — Preceding unsigned comment added by MacRory Mor (talk • contribs) 04:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Abbot Labhran of Achtow

It has been proven by modern gaelic scholars that Abbot Labhran of Achtow did not exist, and that the MacLaren Chiefs genealogy published and displayed here is false. W.F. Skene and Margaret MacLaren mistook the MacLabhertaigh (MacLaverty) of western Scotlands Genealogy for Mhic Labhrainn (McLaurin)(which is not in MS1467. This has recently come to light from the Research of Ronald and Moira Black.http://www.1467manuscript.co.uk/ Cordially Mac — Preceding unsigned comment added by MacRory Mor (talk • contribs) 04:48, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Nothing of the sort. The pedigree in MS1467 is a joke and very little can be adduced from it. So it is true that the pedigree is false (as are almost all the MS1467 pedigrees as their purpose was to mislead). However, precisely because the pedigree is false, the statement "Modern scholarly research by Ronnie and Máire Black, shows that the Abbot of Achtow in Balquhidder, never existed, turns out he is found in the Clan MacLaverty genealogy not a MacLaren genealogy.[7]" is not true either and so should not be there. Freuchie (talk) 20:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

This is the widely distributed fictional version of the MacLaren clan history.

This MacLaren Clan history is mostly fiction, including an incorrect image of the Clan Crest. Anything that cites the following books "Collier's Scottish Clan and Family Encyclopedia", "The MacLarens", "The Highland Clans", is entirely fiction and sourced originally from James Logan and Daniel MacLaurin who fabricated a MacLaurin / MacLaren Clan history for publication in "McIan's Costumes". Which Mr MacLaurin later fraudulently used to matriculate his arms in the Lyon Court.

I intend to re-write this article using legal documents and church records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MacRory Mor (talk • contribs) 00:00, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

The suggestion that this all originated with Logan is comprehensively refuted: https://www.academia.edu/43662512/Why_Fortriu_Was_Misplaced_By_Historians_Of_Old_v2

Freuchie (talk) 16:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Rewrite badly needed

The primary source for this article "Clan.Encyclopedia.MacLaren">Way, George and Squire, Romily, has no sources for anything written pertaining to Clan Maclaren — Preceding unsigned comment added by Macrorybeg (talk • contribs) 15:32, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Tiree

SCFE notwithstanding, any supposed Tiree connection has been refuted: https://www.academia.edu/43786708/The_MacLaurin_Dreghorn_Hoax_1781_v2 Freuchie (talk) 16:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Clan Origins

The suggestion that the Clan descends from Fergus Mor is an elementary mistake by the correspondent for SCFE. The Clan DOES claim descent from "King Loarn Mor", but he is not proposed elsewhere as a son of Fergus. See again at https://www.academia.edu/43662512/Why_Fortriu_Was_Misplaced_By_Historians_Of_Old_v2 Freuchie (talk) 16:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Introductory Paragraph

The text says: ".... the old parish of Balquhidder which includes the villages of Lochearnhead and Strathyre,.... long known as "Maclaren Country"."

In fact Lochearnhead and Edinchip only became part of the parish of Balquhidder (quoad sacra) in 1702. Previous to that and continuing for civil purposes for some time it was in the parish of Comrie (see Statistical Account for Comrie). Lochearnhead is a very new village. Edinchip (including Lochearnhead)- and beside it Edinample - have never been part of "MacLaren Country". Freuchie (talk) 16:53, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Temporary Change in Chief's Information

I removed the information relating to the new chief's name and status as the Lord Lyon is still in the process of matriculating the new chief. Pheigi (talk) 15:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)